Two Plus Two Newer Archives - Small Pot-thread

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Dumle

09-19-2007 11:15 AM

Small Pot-thread

There is alot of talk about big hands on these boards. How do I get value from the nuts? Should I fold AA to his check-raise all-in? This is all well and good and most of our profits come from opponents making big mistakes against our big bets. However, I would like to have a discussion about small pots. I know I am struggling in many situations and I just end up doing something on feel, rather than logic and reason. IMO, you could probably add another one or two BB to your winrate if you just shaped up your small pot-decisions. And I know I don't mind another BB. So, I dub this the small pot-thread. The idea is that we all post hands where the pot is small and discuss. Decide for yourself if you think the pot is small or not, but please no "should I push this river with my set, even though I am 300 bb deep?"-questions.

Here's a hand. I don't have a good read on MP, but he seemed to be on the loosish side.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($61.73)
BB ($51.76)
Hero ($47.50)
MP ($59)
CO ($48.76)
Button ($49)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 3 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $4, MP raises to $8, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($20.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: $20.75

Dumle

sightless

09-19-2007 11:18 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Bet turn
bet river
you have a straight and need to get money intot he pot you cant expect him to bet anythign good on such scary board

Perk76

09-19-2007 11:21 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Good thought for a topic (I cant get HH's now while at work though).

Sightless, maybe I am brain dead already, but I dont think he has a straight here.

sightless

09-19-2007 11:22 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
Good thought for a topic (I cant get HH's now while at work though).

Sightless, maybe I am brain dead already, but I dont think he has a straight here.

[/ QUOTE ]

cool
missread the hand. I fold this on the flop then. Very bad spot for top pair. we will either win a small pot or lose a big one.

I thought we had oesd on the flop

Rythm

09-19-2007 11:24 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

This looks fine to me. You're not likely to get paid by better hands or get worse ones to fold on turn/river, and I think the minraise is a worse hand too often to just fold flop.

scallop

09-19-2007 11:25 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn
bet river
you have a straight and need to get money intot he pot you cant expect him to bet anythign good on such scary board

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all your posts this bad?

I think the hand played out fine for you. I dont think I'm calling a river bet, depends on villian tho, but seeing showdown OOP with this hand on this board is pretty sweet.

sightless

09-19-2007 11:30 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn
bet river
you have a straight and need to get money intot he pot you cant expect him to bet anythign good on such scary board

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all your posts this bad?

I think the hand played out fine for you. I dont think I'm calling a river bet, depends on villian tho, but seeing showdown OOP with this hand on this board is pretty sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah my posts are always that bad, just put me on ignore and you wont have to read them ever again

scallop

09-19-2007 11:34 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn
bet river
you have a straight and need to get money intot he pot you cant expect him to bet anythign good on such scary board

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all your posts this bad?

I think the hand played out fine for you. I dont think I'm calling a river bet, depends on villian tho, but seeing showdown OOP with this hand on this board is pretty sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah my posts are always that bad, just put me on ignore and you wont have to read them ever again

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok - I didnt mean anything by that, clearly you saw your error and have explained it. No need to get personal.

sightless

09-19-2007 11:37 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn
bet river
you have a straight and need to get money intot he pot you cant expect him to bet anythign good on such scary board

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all your posts this bad?

I think the hand played out fine for you. I dont think I'm calling a river bet, depends on villian tho, but seeing showdown OOP with this hand on this board is pretty sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah my posts are always that bad, just put me on ignore and you wont have to read them ever again

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok - I didnt mean anything by that, clearly you saw your error and have explained it. No need to get personal.

[/ QUOTE ]

cool

AZplaya

09-19-2007 11:46 AM

Re: Small Pot-thread

meh I'm not raising 109 for tp value. I would fold to the flop minraise. Your OOP, your hand is super marginal and the board is gross.

danny8

09-19-2007 12:02 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

oop with this hand on this board is gonna suck badly, if you have 0 history and no reason to think hes playing back at you i just fold to the flop raise. this a perfect RIO hand, its not gonna be too hard for him to push you off your hand or he can outdraw you or he might have the best hand.

i think by calling your just gonna be c/f the turn too much to make it profitable.

dnord

09-19-2007 02:16 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Is this really a small pot? I see a SPR of 9.5. After all that money goes in on the flop (woo) this is a pot where 20% of the "effective stack" is in the pot. With a gutshot, I'm usually happy to check down - villain did you a big favor.

When I get home I'll try to find some unusual or dumb thing I've done in an unraised pot. I'd love to see that thread - unraised pots gone wild. I bet we have huge leaks in that area.

Dumle

09-19-2007 07:05 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
Is this really a small pot? I see a SPR of 9.5. After all that money goes in on the flop (woo) this is a pot where 20% of the "effective stack" is in the pot. With a gutshot, I'm usually happy to check down - villain did you a big favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not. I just picked one randomly to get the discussion going.

As for the hand, I agree I should fold the flop here. I think its pretty close, though. I am good sometimes here (anyone care to make an estimate? 20%? 30%?) and when I am behind I have between 3-9 outs. There's of course also some reverse implied odds going on here, which makes it an easier fold.

I'll post another one. Chime in you too, we need to get the ball rolling!

Opponent in this one seems very loose and quite aggressive. This is only after a couple of rounds, though.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($118.89)
Button ($114.80)
Hero ($93.50)
BB ($33.66)
UTG ($67.25)
MP ($147.99)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, UTG folds.

Turn: ($7.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($7.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BB calls $6.

Final Pot: $19.50

Dumle

dnord

09-19-2007 10:18 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Here's a very dumb hand. It's a great argument for just folding in unraised pots.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($48.80)
CO ($9.25)
Button ($24.15)
Hero ($23.65)
BB ($20)
UTG ($27.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75, MP calls $0.75.

Turn: ($3) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3, BB folds, MP calls $3.

River: ($9) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7.25, MP raises to $14.5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $23.50

dnord

09-19-2007 10:24 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Another great way to donk off 1/3 of a stack in an unraised pot:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($28)
MP ($32.35)
Button ($30.10)
Hero ($24.40)
BB ($41.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75.

Turn: ($3) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, BB folds, Button calls $2.50.

River: ($8) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4.75, Button raises to $26.6, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $17.50

mackthefork

09-19-2007 10:28 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

[ QUOTE ]
Another great way to donk off 1/3 of a stack in an unraised pot:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($28)
MP ($32.35)
Button ($30.10)
Hero ($24.40)
BB ($41.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75.

Turn: ($3) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, BB folds, Button calls $2.50.

River: ($8) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4.75, Button raises to $26.6, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $17.50

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on your hand plus oppo.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG ($57.55)
MP ($50)
CO ($46.75)
Button ($57.75)
Hero ($49.50)
BB ($10.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB folds, CO raises to $4.5, Hero raises to $25, CO raises to $45.5, Hero raises to $72.5, CO calls $0.75 (All-In).

Turn: ($120.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($120.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $120.25

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Td (two pair, aces and tens).
CO has Ac 6h (two pair, aces and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins $120.25. 

Villian is 26/2.5 and 2.4 postflop.

Mack

dnord

09-19-2007 10:33 PM

Re: Small Pot-thread

Here's another hand I didn't play really well. Just folding in an unraised pot (or not getting carried away) would have been just fine.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($57.40)
Hero ($48.25)
BB ($26.75)
UTG ($16)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB folds, UTG calls $0.75.

Turn: ($2.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, UTG raises to $4.5, Hero calls $2.25.

River: ($11.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $11.25

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