Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

This is the e-mail I wrote to Stars, such sick and obvious collusion and it was for the ME seat on stars:

Dear Pokerstars Support,

I was part of a satellite tournament to the main event in which there was very obvious collusion. As soon as we reached the final bubble, the chipleader began to isolate and move all in every hand. There was absolutely no benefit for him to do this. The only benefit was to the extremely short stack. The chipleader : Rotten proceeded to move all in every hand after this until the shortstack survived.

This was Tournament 61150023 Table 3. The player in question is The_rotter77, and the shortstack is LiverSpot.

In the first hand where rotter isolated the two happenned to have the exact same hand.

Here is the Hand History:


PokerStars Game #12141101058: Tournament #61150023, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2007/09/19 - 00:50:02 (ET)
Table '61150023 3' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: ImNotSoGood (15654 in chips)
Seat 4: CACIATORE (39687 in chips)
Seat 5: RickyReardon (74982 in chips)
Seat 6: LiverSpot (766 in chips)
Seat 7: vikihris (13366 in chips)
Seat 8: the_rotter77 (106525 in chips)
Seat 9: hubla1 (14520 in chips)
ImNotSoGood: posts the ante 200
CACIATORE: posts the ante 200
RickyReardon: posts the ante 200
LiverSpot: posts the ante 200
vikihris: posts the ante 200
the_rotter77: posts the ante 200
hubla1: posts the ante 200
vikihris: posts small blind 1000
the_rotter77: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ImNotSoGood [9h 5d]
hubla1: folds
ImNotSoGood: folds
CACIATORE: calls 2000
RickyReardon: calls 2000
LiverSpot: calls 566 and is all-in
vikihris: calls 1000
the_rotter77: raises 104325 to 106325 and is all-in
CACIATORE: folds
RickyReardon: folds
vikihris: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 2d Ts]
*** TURN *** [2c 2d Ts] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [2c 2d Ts Jh] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
the_rotter77: shows [Ac 3d] (two pair, Tens and Deuces)
the_rotter77 collected 5736 from side pot
LiverSpot: shows [3h As] (two pair, Tens and Deuces)
the_rotter77 collected 2115 from main pot
LiverSpot collected 2115 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9966 Main pot 4230. Side pot 5736. | Rake 0
Board [2c 2d Ts Jh Th]
Seat 1: ImNotSoGood folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: CACIATORE folded before Flop
Seat 5: RickyReardon folded before Flop
Seat 6: LiverSpot (button) showed [3h As] and won (2115) with two pair, Tens and Deuces
Seat 7: vikihris (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: the_rotter77 (big blind) showed [Ac 3d] and won (7851) with two pair, Tens and Deuces
Seat 9: hubla1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


the_rotter77 proceeded to go all in every single hand after this until the shortstack survived.

The_rotter77 had not previously done this, only when LiverSpot's tournament life became gravely endangered.

I would appreciate if this matter were investigated.

Thank You,
"ImNotSoGood"

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Inconclusive - sometimes the bigstacks like to shove all in just cos, ya know, it's pretty darn fun.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

LOL...well done Inspector Gadget..I can assure you there is no collusion here just bad playing.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Inconclusive - sometimes the bigstacks like to shove all in just cos, ya know, it's pretty darn fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I know, but he wasn't doing this earlier, only started once Liver got extremely short. That's what was so suspicious.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

LOL at collusion. Just when I think these threads can't get any [censored] dumber someone like you comes along and provides a good laugh.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

I guess we don't have to ask who bubbled. But yeah, big stacks love doing this on the bubble a lot, pokerstars will I'm sure look into it, but chances are it's not collusion.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

this is retarded

when i am bigstack on the bubble of a satellite i open-shove/spitecall and i [censored] enjoy it

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL...well done Inspector Gadget..I can assure you there is no collusion here just bad playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad playing huh....?

I'm pretty steamed right now, I might have to challenge u HU for rolls.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

I'm failing to see how all the pushing after that would guarantee a spot for the short-stack.
Can't you wait it out and see if he loses on the next orbit?
He still has only about 1BB so even folding AA to the big-stack's pushes seems a reasonable bubble strategy at this point.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

It is a solid strategy for picking up extra chips when others are trying to move up in the money, very solid though not a particularly advanced play if you ask me.

Jimbo

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

uhmmmm.....I was expecting something like the massive chip leader obviously dumping to the short stack but now I found this.
I call no collusion

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

I guess we know who bubbled!

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

is the collusion was so obvious, why would you even need to tell pokerstars about it?

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Def no collusion here, I guess I was just heated about bubbling.

It was so sick, belongs in BBV though, or the trashcan.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

You, sir, are a moron.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL at collusion. Just when I think these threads can't get any [censored] dumber someone like you comes along and provides a good laugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Def no collusion here, I guess I was just heated about bubbling.

It was so sick, belongs in BBV though, or the trashcan.

[/ QUOTE ]

trash

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

I'm not sure if you are clear on how collusive tactics work in tournaments, but this is just dumb play from a big stack, not collusion.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Actually, its the opposite of the usual collusion when everyone checks it down to eliminate the short stack.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

http://hilary.lookingatstars.com/pic...on04-thumb.jpg

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Since when is calling an all in bet collusion?

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

It doesnt prove collusion, but the HH is suspiciously bad for a $100 buyin satellite.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Fresh squeezed orange juice is freakin delicious. AMIRITE!

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

liverspot is like the biggest fish ever and drops a ton in the PLO games i doubt he's colluding in your $10 sng

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[] evidence of collusion

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

please don't flood the forum with crappy accusations of cheating, i'm trying to seriously fight real cheating for real money...


kthks

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
liverspot is like the biggest fish ever and drops a ton in the PLO games i doubt he's colluding in your $10 sng

[/ QUOTE ]

$100

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

deleted

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is a solid strategy for picking up extra chips when others are trying to move up in the money, very solid though not a particularly advanced play if you ask me.

Jimbo

[/ QUOTE ]

Satellite event, placement beyond bubble doesn't matter.

It does look a bit suspicious, but I'd need lots more evidence.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[] evidence of collusion

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] forgot to put a space in checkbox

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[] evidence of collusion

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] forgot to put a space in checkbox

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] checkbox in reference to someone else's checkbox

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

lol good read, would read again

lol bitterments

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

http://www.impawards.com/2001/posters/bubble_boy.jpg

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Nobody would ever collude in an online tournament. There is no point trying to police this because the online tournament community does a great job at policing themselves. OP is nuts for even mentioning the words "cheating" and "online tournament" in this same sentence.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Def no collusion here, I guess I was just heated about bubbling.

It was so sick, belongs in BBV though, or the trashcan.

[/ QUOTE ]

trash

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

I wouldnt call it obvious. However those that are discounting it completely are also foolish. This was a satellite, not a standard tournament. The big stack gains nothing from doing this.Nothing. From the hand history, the big stack calls the all in after liverspot goes all in. One hand proves nothing and in this case it is a decent play to try end the tournament. If this were to continously happen, then it becomes suspicsous.

The OP states that the big stack started shoving every hand, it would make sense for collusion. If I am the big stack and my friend is the SS and we are at the bubble of the tournament. If I push every hand I am greatly increasing his odds of making it in. I either A) get someone else to call and have the chance of busting them so you get in, or B) have you call with a very strong hand where you double up.

Lets not be so harsh to OP. I definitly wouldnt call it obvious, but I think there is some suspicous play at least.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

This is easily one of the worst threads ever. I actually thought of using the Sandler line prior to seeing it posted.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt call it obvious. However those that are discounting it completely are also foolish. This was a satellite, not a standard tournament. The big stack gains nothing from doing this.Nothing. From the hand history, the big stack calls the all in after liverspot goes all in. One hand proves nothing and in this case it is a decent play to try end the tournament. If this were to continously happen, then it becomes suspicsous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd do this as big stack simply to make my opponents pay dearly for being the donkeys that they are and not following proper satellite strategy.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

The bigstack was probably just having a blast bullying the table. Even by pushing all-in for a while, he barely affects his own chances of bubbling.

I think "spite" is a way more likely possibility than collusion. Maybe the 2nd or 3rd short stack had pissed him off earier in the tournament and was trying to get them to bubble, I have seen that more than once. To try to call this "Obvious Collusion" is laughable.

Re: Obvious Collusion - Pokerstars
 

Here is why it almost certainly wasn't collusion:

Seat 1: ImNotSoGood (15654 in chips)
Seat 4: CACIATORE (39687 in chips)
Seat 5: RickyReardon (74982 in chips)
Seat 6: LiverSpot (766 in chips)
Seat 7: vikihris (13366 in chips)
Seat 8: the_rotter77 (106525 in chips)
Seat 9: hubla1 (14520 in chips)

rotter has a massive lead. Even if he loses an all-in pot to Ricky, he will still have over 35 times the chip stack of Liver. rotter is just bored or tired, and wants to get this game over with. Furthermore, rotter figures that if he pushes in every hand, nobody can possibly call, except for Liver, who has to call eventually, even if simply because the blinds will have him all-in preflop. rotter simply figures that he wants to race against Liver, spotting Liver the best hand, because Liver is going to have to win at least 3 such flips before he's not the shortest stack anymore. If he does manage to do this, that's still OK for rotter, as he has stolen so many blinds and antes in the process that he has made the other stacks even shorter.

I'm not saying that this is a smart strategy, just a possible one. Of course, rotter's mistake is not paying attention to the fact that he should instead just let the entire group gang up on Liver this hand and greatly increase the chances of ending it now.

Just based upon the hand history and nothing else, I'd say there is only a minor chance that collusion occurred. However, you still did the right thing in reporting it to PokerStars support. They might not have just this isolated hand to look at, but other evidence of collusive activity between rotter and Liver from other tables and other tournaments. That earlier inconclusive evidence might match up with this evidence, and then be enough to "convict" these two of cheating. So, it is always a good thing to highlight anything fishy and email it to support, even when you know it is not enough to "prove" anything.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)