NL 50 weird KK spot
 

after his min raise pre flop then re raise i was pretty sure he had aces... how did i play this hand?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($49.75)
CO ($25.80)
Button ($83.35)
SB ($20.95)
BB ($10)
UTG ($36.70)
UTG+1 ($36.75)
MP1 ($23.50)
MP2 ($19.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3.75</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $7.5</font>, Hero calls $2.75.

Flop: ($14.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($14.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($24.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7.

Final Pot: $38.75

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

TOO passive. How are you not reraising preflop. Why are you checking the flop? And his bets are really weak. I don't think you can put him on anything because all you did was call the whole time.

I am reraising preflop to at least $15. You just called - fine - as played I am firing $14 on the flop to make draws pay. At that point I am committed and getting it all in - If he has AA - so be it - but you did nothing to extract information that tell you he does except a min - reraise preflop.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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TOO passive. How are you not reraising preflop. Why are you checking the flop? And his bets are really weak. I don't think you can put him on anything because all you did was call the whole time.

I am reraising preflop to at least $15. You just called - fine - as played I am firing $14 on the flop to make draws pay. At that point I am committed and getting it all in - If he has AA - so be it - but you did nothing to extract information that tell you he does except a min - reraise preflop.

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Yup.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

I don't really like it. What was your goal? I like to be in control of the betting in a hand.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

You are playing to lose the minimum in this hand, not to win the hand. I don't like that mindset. I'm definitely firing that flop after checked to.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

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Did you look into his soul? Is that how you got the feeling? LMAO You're a nit.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

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If you were so sure it was aces why did you call him all the way down?

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

Teddie hit that nail pretty good. Seriously after reading your other hand and now reading this "i had a feeling response." Have you been in the 50nl long and are you winning?

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

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Did you look into his soul? Is that how you got the feeling? LMAO You're a nit.

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haha good reply. honestly as stupid as this sounds i actually think the games at NL 100 and NL 200 are easier to beat. well not so much NL 200 but def. NL 100.
but at the lower stakes players just seem to always be turning over i'm thinking they are having. you can really just play ABC poker and beat the game.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

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If you were so sure it was aces why did you call him all the way down?

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because i am a donk and couldn't throw away KK on that board

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

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Teddie hit that nail pretty good. Seriously after reading your other hand and now reading this "i had a feeling response." Have you been in the 50nl long and are you winning?

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i only post the hands that i have played terribly wrong (or that i think i have played terribly) so the stuff you guys see here must make you all think 'let's play this guy HU for rolls' haha..
i 18 table, so often i do not make optimal decisions but that is just what comes with playing so many (on ONE 15' screen!!)

and after about 35K at NL50 I am up about 12 BIs.. but over the last 20K of those 35K I am about break even. maybe up 1/2 a BI.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

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If you were so sure it was aces why did you call him all the way down?

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ding ding ding

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

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just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you look into his soul? Is that how you got the feeling? LMAO You're a nit.

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haha good reply. honestly as stupid as this sounds i actually think the games at NL 100 and NL 200 are easier to beat. well not so much NL 200 but def. NL 100.
but at the lower stakes players just seem to always be turning over i'm thinking they are having. you can really just play ABC poker and beat the game.

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LMAO - this is such a typical nitty response. I can beat good players way easier than bad players. OMG. R U SERIOUS????????????

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are villains stats that gave you this must have aces read you have made?

[/ QUOTE ]

just a feeling. these situations occur so frequently at NL 50 that it was just a give away. i could never say 100% that villain had AA but by the vast majority of the time it is the case when I see this betting pattern.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you look into his soul? Is that how you got the feeling? LMAO You're a nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha good reply. honestly as stupid as this sounds i actually think the games at NL 100 and NL 200 are easier to beat. well not so much NL 200 but def. NL 100.
but at the lower stakes players just seem to always be turning over i'm thinking they are having. you can really just play ABC poker and beat the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO - this is such a typical nitty response. I can beat good players way easier than bad players. OMG. R U SERIOUS????????????

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hmm that's not quite what i meant although it sounded so. i meant to specifically address the KK situation at the beginning of this post and how if played at a higher stakes i wouldn't not have been so quick to think 'villain has aces.'
i do believe that NL 100 is easier than NL 50 (on FTP anyway) but I don't have the BR for NL 100 right now due to my donking nature of buying into the $200 and $500 FTP tourneys lol.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

meh, I think checking the flop is pretty good here. There aren't really any scare cards so it doesn't really matter and you only need 2 streets to get it in here. Everyone advocating a bet on the flop, why is betting flop and turn better than turn and river? I don't think it is. I'm fine with the turn even although raising isn't bad. I probably shove the river in this spot and expect QQ and JJ to look me up. This is AA a lot of the time even with his weak postflop line.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

Im gonna go out on a limb and say that im the only one who doesnt hate your line.

I would be totally OK with how you played this hand if you had stats or data (minraised/reraised AA early before) to back you up. As is im still not totally against it.

One thought is that if you think youre not getting enough money in with this hand you can raise the rive and probably not get reraised by AA, while still getting looked up by TT-QQ.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

just move in on the flop if you want to make things easy. Bet 5 if you want to make things interesting.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

OK, I'm a new guy so I know sod all, but I was re-reading HoH1 last night, and he writes something like (don't have book here to refer to for exact quote),

"You'll hear people telling you how they lay down KK because they *knew* the other guy had AA. Don't believe them - no-one knows. Aim to get all-in HU. OK, one time in 24 at a full table when you pick up KK you'll face AA and you'll lose your stack. But what you win the other 23 times makes the push a +EV play, so don't bother trying to work out which times you're facing AA."

OK, that made sense to me, which is why I have tried to remember it. But some of you guys seem to be asking the OP why he didn't lay down his KK if he knew he was facing AA. So an honest [and maybe dumb] question from a new guy here, do you think that with tools like PT you do have a better chance of spotting an AA than in a live tournament game [the HoH example] - or are you just being ironic?

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

If you had some kind of stats or specific reads on the guy I could see slowing down. Otherwise, push on the gas preflop. This guy doesn't even have a full buy-in so I don't mind stacking off here at all.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

I'm all for going with your reads. If you read him for aces you should fold but you need to base your read on something. If you played him before and have seen him take this line with aces I would say this may be a good read.

As it is villain seems unknown to you so you should be looking to get it all in with your kings. I'd also call pre-flop so queens and jacks don't get scared but I'd take the initiative with the betting and look to build up a pot.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

sounds crazy, but i actually agree with the way OP played this.. after playing about 60k hands at NL 50 on full tilt, i've seldom seen people reraise in that manner with only QQ or AK. the players here are just so freakin tight. IRL i'm pushing KK against anyone..

i've been all in preflop KK vs AA 5 times this month, and every time it was this same situation, so i've resorted to just calling a player down.

as for firing 15 on the flop to get information, i think its pretty hard to get any info from doing that if you only have 50 dollars.. 7.5 preflop, 15 on the flop, he raises all in for 28 more, does that really show the difference between QQ and AA?

i'm probably just a pansy, but I prefer to stay on the safe side, and i dont mind seeing a flop and letting a hand play out.

Re: NL 50 weird KK spot
 

I really think checking the flop is the best play, but I probably raise the river if I didn't get it in preflop or on the turn.