I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

First orbit. No history.
Poker Stars
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $59.90
Hero (BB): $200.00
UTG: $109.00
MP: $200.00
CO: $244.65
BTN: $201.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $2.00, <font color="red">MP raises to $8.00</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $30.00</font>, UTG folds, MP calls $22.00

Flop: ($63) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $40.00</font>, <font color="red">MP raises all-in to $170.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $273.00 ($3 Rake)

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I don't like it atall with no reads. People push retarded [censored] like 88 all day in spots like this. With a better read maybe you can fold.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I'd fold now and curse when I see him spewing around the next orbits.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

looks like a good fold. readless, letting it go is the best.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Looks good.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I call. I think you're ahead of an unknown's range (77+, Jx, draws and sometimes whiffed AK).

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold now and curse when I see him spewing around the next orbits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. I really don't know if I was beat here or not. He claimed to have QQ too. He ended up being a 55/20 spewtard. I woulda instacalled had I known. (Later on, I rivered a straightflush vs his turned full house though so it was all good [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) W/ a full stack and avatar reads (lol) I put him on being a TAG [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

dont fold

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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I call. To many draws and Jx hands that you beat to be able to fold imo.

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Yep. I certainly don't fold this vs. an unknown.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

hahah interesting all the Party players are saying call [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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I call. To many draws and Jx hands that you beat to be able to fold imo.

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what draws? AKhh and AQhh. And in terms of the Jx hands he can only have AJ and I don't typically put unknowns on the bottom of their range as a rule of thumb.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold now and curse when I see him spewing around the next orbits.

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Bingo. I really don't know if I was beat here or not. He claimed to have QQ too. He ended up being a 55/20 spewtard. I woulda instacalled had I known. (Later on, I rivered a straightflush vs his turned full house though so it was all good [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) W/ a full stack and avatar reads (lol) I put him on being a TAG [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I find that it has served me well when I'm facing an unknown to assume that he is more likely to be a spewtard than he is to be decent/solid. If you routinely fold in spots like this you're probably missing out on a lot of value.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

lol, good point. i still fold cause im weak/tight

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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I call. To many draws and Jx hands that you beat to be able to fold imo.

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what draws? AKhh and AQhh. And in terms of the Jx hands he can only have AJ and I don't typically put unknowns on the bottom of their range as a rule of thumb.

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Why are you narrowing his range so much? Villain opened from MP and called a 3-bet. This is not enough info to assume that his range is that tight. I put all sorts of sc's in his range.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Don't fold QQ in a RR pot if you get a good flop. Without reads this is instacall.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I did some stoving.

We have to call $130 to win $270, meaning we need 32.5% equity for a call to be neutral EV.

If we give him a reasonably tight range we still have a profitable call:


35,640 games 0.005 secs 7,128,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.446% 33.12% 01.33% 11804 472.50 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 65.554% 64.23% 01.33% 22891 472.50 { JJ+, 44-33, AhKh, AhQh, AJs, AJo }

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

no reads, i call.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Call. We're not in great shape, but we're getting great odds.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

What if this was a regular 20/16, decent TAG, type?
(actually, this makes the call easier I think)

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol, good point. i still fold cause im weak/tight

[/ QUOTE ]
Play overrolled. Being a bankroll nit is fine, being a playing nit is missing out on value.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if this was a regular 20/16, decent TAG, type?
(actually, this makes the call easier I think)

[/ QUOTE ]
It really depends on his 3-bet calling range and his post flop tendencies. Does he (mistakenly) call 3-bets with small pp's for set-value? If so, then we lose a bit of equity. Does he call with 56s and try to outplay you post flop. If so, then we gain value.

But the big question is if he goes broke here with TPTK or not. That could possibly skew it from a call to a fold.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I did some stoving.

We have to call $130 to win $270, meaning we need 32.5% equity for a call to be neutral EV.

If we give him a reasonably tight range we still have a profitable call:


35,640 games 0.005 secs 7,128,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.446% 33.12% 01.33% 11804 472.50 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 65.554% 64.23% 01.33% 22891 472.50 { JJ+, 44-33, AhKh, AhQh, AJs, AJo }

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is a very conservative range. Im never folding QQ on this flop vs an unknown.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

O.k. so calling&gt;folding here vs unknown. I should have known hardly anyone would push JJJ here, so I coulda narrowed his range more in my favor. I've been a little extra nitty starting out sessions since I've been running/playing like ass this week.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Having put 15% of your stack in preflop, calling is the play here.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
O.k. so calling&gt;folding here vs unknown. I should have known hardly anyone would push JJJ here, so I coulda narrowed his range more in my favor. I've been a little extra nitty starting out sessions since I've been running/playing like ass this week.

[/ QUOTE ]

isnt shoving JJJ here standard??

and wolfram, i was joking about being a nit/weak tight. i still typically fold here b/c everytime i call im behind.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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and wolfram, i was joking about being a nit/weak tight. i still typically fold here b/c everytime i call im behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you're a weak tight nit then obviously you're always going to be behind when you call here.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
O.k. so calling&gt;folding here vs unknown. I should have known hardly anyone would push JJJ here, so I coulda narrowed his range more in my favor. I've been a little extra nitty starting out sessions since I've been running/playing like ass this week.

[/ QUOTE ]

isnt shoving JJJ here standard??

and wolfram, i was joking about being a nit/weak tight. i still typically fold here b/c everytime i call im behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most randoms like to slowplay sets I figured, but yeah ur prob. right.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
hahah interesting all the Party players are saying call [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I play on Stars and I would never fold this without a very specific read.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I call. To many draws and Jx hands that you beat to be able to fold imo.

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what draws? AKhh and AQhh. And in terms of the Jx hands he can only have AJ and I don't typically put unknowns on the bottom of their range as a rule of thumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm calling this.

What makes you say an unknown that BG hasn't seen a lot (and BG plays a lot) has such a tight range.

It's random hearts, a non set pocket pair that puts BG on AK, a lone jack,etc. enough to call here.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

this is def. a call

i mean yeah you're behind JJ now, but there are str8 and flush draws on board, and getting jiggy w/ QQ pf and folding on a flop w/ no overcards is kind of spewy

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

what the hell
is the average 1/2 guy really this passive that it makes this a fold, wtf i snap this fistpump and everything
draws, aj, stupid [censored], ur gettin great odds to call

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I shrug my shoulders and remind myself that people do dumb things in 3bet pots. i call.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call. To many draws and Jx hands that you beat to be able to fold imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

what draws? AKhh and AQhh. And in terms of the Jx hands he can only have AJ and I don't typically put unknowns on the bottom of their range as a rule of thumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm calling this.

What makes you say an unknown that BG hasn't seen a lot (and BG plays a lot) has such a tight range.

It's random hearts, a non set pocket pair that puts BG on AK, a lone jack,etc. enough to call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see two random cards and AK enough to call here without even considering the lower pps and draws. I'm talking about 22/18 type tags, 17/15 nittier tags, everyone seems to do really dumb stuff in rr pots these days. I wouldn't fold AJ and would probably stack off as low as 99 here at least 60% of the time the way the games have been playing recently.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Is it not wrong to bet unless you are calling a push?

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

I call fast. No fistpumping, but folding doesn't really cross my mind.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

wow i am one to make big folds and I pretty much instacall here.

I don't play that much 1/2 on stars, but my experience is that people call way too lightly vs 3 bets, in an attempt(lol) to outplay their opponents with any two cards.

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

NO reads=call

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

First post on these forums so I dont expect you guys to think I know anything about anything. BUT why did you call preflop if you weren't ready to play for your stack on a
flop like that?!

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

Would he stack off w/ AJ here? If he does your equity becomes about 42%..an easy call. If he wouldn't stack off w/ AJ here then your equity is about 33%...very close between calling and folding.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,650 games 0.005 secs 6,930,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.472% 33.47% 00.00% 11598 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 66.528% 66.53% 00.00% 23052 0.00 { KK+, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, AJs, Ah5h, Ah2h, 7h5h, 6h5h }


---

28,710 games 0.005 secs 5,742,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.746% 38.75% 00.00% 11124 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 61.254% 61.25% 00.00% 17586 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, AJs, Ah5h, Ah2h, 7h5h, 6h5h }


---

37,620 games 0.005 secs 7,524,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.743% 47.74% 00.00% 17961 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 52.257% 52.26% 00.00% 19659 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, AJs, Ah5h, Ah2h, 7h5h, 6h5h, AJo }


---

25,740 games 0.005 secs 5,148,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.332% 34.33% 00.00% 8837 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 65.668% 65.67% 00.00% 16903 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, Ah5h, Ah2h, 7h5h, 6h5h }


---

25,740 games 0.005 secs 5,148,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.332% 34.33% 00.00% 8837 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 65.668% 65.67% 00.00% 16903 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, Ah5h, Ah2h, 7h5h, 6h5h }


---

23,760 games 0.005 secs 4,752,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.194% 33.19% 00.00% 7887 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 66.806% 66.81% 00.00% 15873 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, 44-33, AhKh, Ah5h, Ah2h }


---

17,820 games 0.005 secs 3,564,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.347% 41.35% 00.00% 7368 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 58.653% 58.65% 00.00% 10452 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT, AhKh, Ah5h, Ah2h }


---

14,850 games 0.005 secs 2,970,000 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.667% 40.67% 00.00% 6039 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 59.333% 59.33% 00.00% 8811 0.00 { AA, JJ-TT }


---

5,940 games 0.016 secs 371,250 games/sec

Board: Jh 4h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 07.980% 07.98% 00.00% 474 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 92.020% 92.02% 00.00% 5466 0.00 { AA }


---

Re: I don\'t like my QQ much.
 

callaments