Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Hey guys,

Where can I find information on strategy for Heads up No Limit Holdem. I've already read the heads up section in Harrington on Holdem II. I'm looking for more material. If you could suggest a book, online resource or dvd that would be great.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Cardrunners. Doubt anything else exists.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

try stoxpoker.com

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

he wants to play NH. Stox is a limit specialist. If he wanted to play HU limit, Expertholdem.com has DVDs.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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he wants to play NH. Stox is a limit specialist. If he wanted to play HU limit, Expertholdem.com has DVDs.

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I play both and have posted a number of HUNL videos on the site in addition to the LHE videos I have made.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

try the hu forums here, there are plenty of excellent players and coaches.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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try the hu forums here, there are plenty of excellent players and coaches.

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Bad advice. They do not like questions like the OPs in that forum. Either post a hand or don't post.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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try the hu forums here, there are plenty of excellent players and coaches.

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Bad advice. They do not like questions like the OPs in that forum. Either post a hand or don't post.

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its just that it has been asked 10,000 times. Here is a thread that might help.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12054355

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

If you take the time to simply go through the past, oh, I don't know, 25 pages in the HU forum and read through it, you will find very strong material. I didn't say go to the forum and ask what to read. I said read and post in the forum. There is no easy way to become good at Heads Up, and yes, many of us appreciate that fact. I post there regularly, and I think it is a very good forum, especially since it deals with so many soft concepts.

I suggested a coach, because for a small relative fee, some concepts can be clarified for you.

You are not going to find any good books, because heads up players are guarded in their concepts. The player pool is very small. Unlike the major forums, we only have a hand full of regular posters. This matters because in the bigger forums (NL, LIMIT HE), there is so much noise, one question is going to receive 5 very different answers.

Also, mind that writing a good heads up book is nearly impossible. For example, I play nearly every hand, some very good players choose to play 60% of their hands. Some people are very very math based, other's are by feel. While many situations are basic, many players will disagree on what defines a fish, what a good call, raise, fold, etc. Heads-up is so situation dependent that looking at one hand tells nothing useful. While I may look at a lone hand and disagree with you, it all breaks down to the fact that you were there, and I wasn't. While this has weight with a full ring, it is paramount to master this when you are playing heads-up, and no book can properly express that.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

And that's why I suggested Cardrunners.

Or Stox's site. No dis intended.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

no offense taken.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

The book you need is a book that gives at least one strategy that covers all streets, all flop types, raised or not raised pot, position and other factors, and the strategy in each case depends more or less of the opponent. As the situation is now, you are mostly on your own, even if you would find many texts about it as the detailed strategy has about never been printed before, no matter what the form and the number of players.

The nl holdem books out there are about full ring nl holdem, about tournaments and offline (not online) games. I don't personally play any of them but shorthanded nl and limit holdem and heads up limit holdem and only the shorthanded limit holdem has a good book out there (8 by my standards - the second best strategy book I know gets a 6 from me, and if there wouldn't be that 8 book I would say there's no *book* worth reading but the theory of poker. At best they are general books for dummies).

There are some good players out there, or so they say, and with PokerTracker one could collect their hand histories at least from prima and tilt. But it's mostly not the way you should play against your opponents as the strategy depends of the opponents' style of play.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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writing a good heads up book is nearly impossible

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The number of players doesn't matter. I know for a fact that one can write a good book especially about heads up play. Heads up play just is not as popular. The better players who also have an analytical mind (if not, they can't teach as well) know also or more so in heads up situations what is their more or less detailed general strategy - covering more or less all situations.

The general strategy may or may not more or less cover the still more detailed style of the opponents (many types of e.g. hyper-aggressive opponents), and it may not cover the likely extra factor of what has happened in the previous hands other than it effects the factor of what he thinks about you. But all those extra factors drop more or less into some style; one is often not playing against the same style all the time (on some specific street), though the opponent is the same.

At this time the hand examples are used, no general detailed strategy other than preflop, and from much part the river. The next step of poker literature evolution will cover detailed general strategy of the other streets.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

the kill everyone book appears to have a chapter on heads-up play.

I hate playing heads up as i havent a clue how to play it, and am sure lots of other players are in the same boat and would like to see a book on the subject.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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You are not going to find any good books, because heads up players are guarded in their concepts.

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True, but I would have thought that all the best books over the last, well, since SuperSystem have revealed things that the pros felt to be trade secrets. There'll always be someone prepared to break the magicians' code if it's right for them, so hopefully it's only a matter of time for NLHU.

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The player pool is very small.

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I don't agree with this. I've played over a thousand HU SNGs, and only once have I come up against an opponent I had played in the past.

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Also, mind that writing a good heads up book is nearly impossible.

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I'm not sure this is right either, and I hope it isn't. As you say, a lot of the concepts are soft concepts, but that doesn't mean they can't be written about. Anyone who wants to get good at HU will have realise that they will to absorb and apply general principles and soft concepts, rather than being told whaat cards to play and how. And a book can certainly teach that.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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I know for a fact that one can write a good book especially about heads up play.

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How? Who tried to write one (you?)?

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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I know for a fact that one can write a good book especially about heads up play.

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How? Who tried to write one (you?)?

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Writing a book on HU play would proboly be really hard and is more HU play is more dependent on reads and goin with your gut feelings

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Okay, for those that say it is possible. Where would you start, if you decided to write a book?

What would chapter one deal with?

What do you think would be the important concepts.

What should be the foundation of playing? Would you suggest playing and learning Limit beforehand?

Would you write it for beginner's or for experienced players.

Mostly, what would be the underlying concept that would drive the book?

This could be helpful for those who are picking through the various books available.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Hi Everyone:

We just talked to one of our authors about doing a book for heads-up no-limit hold 'em, and we told him to give it a shot. That's my only comment for now.

Best wishes,
Mason

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

How much does he need to not write it?

(joke) ha ha.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

See Math of Poker section on HU NL poker. HU poker especially in tourneys where players are less than 15 BB deep is just about shoving.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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How much does he need to not write it?

(joke) ha ha.

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Same question, but not joking.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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Hi Everyone:

We just talked to one of our authors about doing a book for heads-up no-limit hold 'em, and we told him to give it a shot. That's my only comment for now.

Best wishes,
Mason

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mason i don't understand, i am almost done with a book that specifically deals with HU NLHE and i am a far better NLHE HU player than all of your authors combined (barring ray zee). you told me you are not interested in seeing my book. why is it that you contract people like ed miller that can't even play poker to write yoru poker books? my book is going to be about 20 times better than anything ever published by 2+2.

you guys have david slansky the philosopher using his science to tell us what is the optimal line to take. big deal, that isn't poker it is so easy to use logic to come up what is the optimal line to take. poker is about hand reading, and only the best poker players can teach hand reading and none of your books have dealt with that topic. that is because you don't have real poker players teaching poker at your place, why is that?

you guys think that teaching poker isn't about the skill of a player. you think that sometimes an okay player can be a great teacher, and sometimes a great player can be a bad teacher but that's actually not true. personally when i was learning poker i always liked to learn from the best players i could find to teach me, i didn't ask them if htey had a degree from MIT, i just liked to know that they coudl actually beat high stakes pokre for a lot of money. and that method of learning seemed to serve me pretty good.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Hi fatty:

First off I don't know who you are, but I have been recently telling almost everyone who asks about us doing their book that we are currently fully committed. The reason for this response is that we are currently fully committed.

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my book is going to be about 20 times better than anything ever published by 2+2.

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If your book is 20 times better than anything Two Plus Two has ever published it will be a shame that it probably won't get published, and even if it does that virtually no one will buy it. I really wish I could do more for you, but we are a small company and just don't have the resources at this time to take on more than what we have committed to.

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when i was learning poker i always liked to learn from the best players i could find to teach me, i didn't ask them if htey had a degree from MIT,

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Actually, when I was first introduced to our MIT author I didn't even ask him if he had a degree. I already knew from his posts here that he had potential.

MM

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

the point is that the reason you don't have resources is because they are all comitted to people that don't play poker but write about poker. and to tell you who i am, this is bruiser.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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mason i don't understand, i am almost done with a book that specifically deals with HU NLHE and i am a far better NLHE HU player than all of your authors combined (barring ray zee).

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it's so cute when little boys puff out their chests and talk tough.


anyway, it's not me. gotta be Harrington or Stox, probably Stox. should be Strasser though, but he's busy. anyway Bruiser just finish your book don't let anyone talk you off your goals.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

it's unfornate for 2p2 that it wont get to publish bruiser's book because it is the best book i've ever read on poker since TOP.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

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Cardrunners. Doubt anything else exists.

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Absolutely your best resource. Watch Green Plastic's HU videos. The guy's a genius.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

agreed

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Brusier vs Ed Miller HU for publishing rights!

I will bet on Bruiser laying 1.2 to 1 odds.

Re: Heads up No limit Holdem Strategy
 

Judging by Fattys email you'd need to pay a good editor 12 months salary and give them drip fed aspirin. This might cut into the books profits margins.


.Z