100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

<font color="blue"> Villain is 28/7/1 over 90 hands</font>

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50./$1.
6 players

Villain is CO with $160.10.
Hero is Button with $157.45.
SB with $24.30.
BB with $86.80.
UTG with $105.85.
UTG+1 with $109.90.

Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $3.5</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $35</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($117, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $40</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($197, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">CO is all-in $81.6</font>, Hero?

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

what's sick? shove flop, shove turn, shove river. AK/AQ/AT is probably playing identically

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Fairly easy call imo, you're getting sick odds and you've underrepped your hand, he could have two pair easily.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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what's sick? shove flop, shove turn, shove river

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Do you see how the action went? Shoving flop is pretty bad.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

3-bet the flop and get it in.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Fairly easy call imo, you're getting sick odds and you've underrepped your hand, he could have two pair easily.

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I agree, shoving flop seems pretty spewy because CO looks pretty strong, but it could be AT or AQ, even though it's probably KJ since you wouldn't post it if it wasn't.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Yes this is sick I dunno what to do I prolly make crying call on river.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

[ ] SO SICK

Push flop when it gets back to you. Push turn. Somehow, you got to the river with money behind, so, um, call, eh.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Since KJo doesn't appear to be in his preflop raising range. I think you're in pretty good shape to get it all in on the flop.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

i definitely 3bet flop, but since you didnt definitely shove turn, why would u want to give a *free* card here?

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Since KJo doesn't appear to be in his preflop raising range. I think you're in pretty good shape to get it all in on the flop.

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He didn't raise, he called a raise.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

I'm willing to stack off to to KJ/AA/QQ here if he's willing to cold call all of those preflop AND coldcall them to a flop checkraise.

The preflop call + flop call feels way more like some kind of combo draw to me.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Since KJo doesn't appear to be in his preflop raising range. I think you're in pretty good shape to get it all in on the flop.

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He didn't raise, he called a raise.

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Meh, now the action is even stranger. Why would he slowplay a made hand that is obviously vulnerable too some sort of outs. I wish I had numbers on UTG. Cause I'm more afraid of UTG then the CO now. But given how big the pot is, I'd just push the flop. I doubt the CO has AA or QQ given preflop and flop action and I doubt he has KJ given the flop action...

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Meh, now the action is even stranger. Why would he slowplay a made hand that is obviously vulnerable too some sort of outs.

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I never get these sort of posts. He's an idiot. That's why we make money playing poker.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

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I read it correct the first time and I'm still clueless to why getting it in on the flop is silly, spewy etc. We're obv not getting away here if behind, just get it in. CO could easily have some kind of combo draw or 2 pair, if he has KJ we have plenty of outs, if he CCed QQ preflop and on a drawy flop then... oh well.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

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Can you explain why if you were the CO, why you would call there with KJ? It seems like there are a ton of bad cards for you on the turn. Any A,T,Q,K,J spade which has to be somewhere near 20 cards or close to half the deck.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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I read it correct the first time and I'm still clueless to why getting it in on the flop is silly, spewy etc.

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it isn't

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

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Can you explain why if you were the CO, why you would call there with KJ? It seems like there are a ton of bad cards for you on the turn. Any A,T,Q,K,J spade which has to be somewhere near 20 cards or close to half the deck.

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Because they have a straight and they don't care what card comes and they know that they're going all the way and they just think that you and PFR have A7o and A8o and they aren't scared. They don't realize the board is drawy.

He's just a bad player.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

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Can you explain why if you were the CO, why you would call there with KJ? It seems like there are a ton of bad cards for you on the turn. Any A,T,Q,K,J spade which has to be somewhere near 20 cards or close to half the deck.

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Because they have a straight and they don't care what card comes and they know that they're going all the way and they just think that you and PFR have A7o and A8o and they aren't scared. They don't realize the board is drawy.

He's just a bad player.

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You only assume this because of OP's posting. In game you there's no reason to assume any of that, and there's no way you just flat put a guy on KJ here. I mean, if you can, then nh I guess, but I see no reason to assume I'm beat and there's alot of cards I don't want to see on the turn.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Just to make sure people aren't missing the flop action.

I bet $10. I get CHECK-RAISED to $35 and then CO cold calls $35 not knowing what I am going to do. CO has me beat here the majority of the time even though I'm ahead of UTG+1's range.

Also did you see CO's stats? He could easily have KJ/JJ. Not saying I am folding ever but to say shove the flop is pretty silly.

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Can you explain why if you were the CO, why you would call there with KJ? It seems like there are a ton of bad cards for you on the turn. Any A,T,Q,K,J spade which has to be somewhere near 20 cards or close to half the deck.

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I wouldn't cold call obviously but I can't speak for my opponents.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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You only assume this because of OP's posting. In game you have no reason to assume any of that, and there's no way you just flat put a guy on KJ here. I mean, if you can, then nh I guess, but I see no reason to assume I'm beat, and there's alot of cards I don't want to see on the turn.

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I realize that, but the quote I replied to asked why he would just call there with KJ.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

I doubt he has JJ here and we are not afraid of it. He def. has a good hand and I would exclude AA/QQ from his range. There are 15 combinations of AQ/AT/QT and 16 combinations of KJ. If he would play all these hands this way then you are beat ~50% of the time so given 3+:1 it's a call.

Edit: Oh and I forgot to include A8 kind of hands...

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

what are utg+1's stats?

CO is 28/7 so his pf cold-calling range is quite wide.
so i like a squeeze pf to like $15/16
if called it makes your hand eaiser to play post-flop.

as played, i like flop as you have position and don't fold out weaker hands.

CO's line looks strong, but it will include 2pair, so shove turn.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Meh, now the action is even stranger. Why would he slowplay a made hand that is obviously vulnerable too some sort of outs.

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I never get these sort of posts. He's an idiot. That's why we make money playing poker.

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I know what you're saying. But how else do you put the Villain on a range of hands. I know Villain's make mistakes and it's dumb to suggest they play like us. But I think it's also bad to just assume that we're behind just because he cold-called a flop check raise.

We're behind 3 types of hands AA,QQ,KJ. And since he flat called preflop, we need to discount AA and QQ. He definitly could have KJ given that he flat called preflop, but I think a hand like KQ or AJ or AT possibly AQ is just as likely. I also think that Villain's won't always slow play KJ there since theirs the obviously flush draw. And we have decent equity against KJ.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Meh, now the action is even stranger. Why would he slowplay a made hand that is obviously vulnerable too some sort of outs.

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I never get these sort of posts. He's an idiot. That's why we make money playing poker.

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I know what you're saying. But how else do you put the Villain on a range of hands. I know Villain's make mistakes and it's dumb to suggest they play like us. But I think it's also bad to just assume that we're behind just because he cold-called a flop check raise.

We're behind 3 types of hands AA,QQ,KJ. And since he flat called preflop, we need to discount AA and QQ. He definitly could have KJ given that he flat called preflop, but I think a hand like KQ or AJ or AT possibly AQ is just as likely. I also think that Villain's won't always slow play KJ there since theirs the obviously flush draw. And we have decent equity against KJ.

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I forgot to mention that we don't know which cards complete the Villains' draws, so it doesn't make sense for us to wait and see if a safe card comes on the turn.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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I know what you're saying. But how else do you put the Villain on a range of hands.

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um by knowing what bad players actually do... also a bad heory is typically worse than no theory.

I get the money in here but fo sho he has us beat pretty often.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Am I seriously the only one that has seen CO make this play with AK, a flush draw, J9, and tons of two pair? Donks overestimate their strength all the time. You are def behind to oversets, JK, and J9 but seriously dude like 3.5:1. I'm never folding this.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Am I seriously the only one that has seen CO make this play with AK, a flush draw, J9, and tons of two pair? Donks overestimate their strength all the time. You are def behind to oversets, JK, and J9 but seriously dude 2:1. I'm never folding this.

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I agree, but with those hands, he's more likely to bet than call, which is why I really don't like shoving flop. I shove turn though because a river spade can kill action.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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I know what you're saying. But how else do you put the Villain on a range of hands.

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um by knowing what bad players actually do... also a bad heory is typically worse than no theory.

I get the money in here but fo sho he has us beat pretty often.

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I think your statement that we're beat here 'pretty often' is misleading because that would suggest we're beat here more than 50% of the time which I think is pretty clear that we're not. And the times we're beat, we're likely to have around 30% equity against the COs range on the flop (since QQ and AA should make a small portion of his range given preflop). Whereas, when the CO is behind, his equity is likely to be closer to 12%-25%.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Am I seriously the only one that has seen CO make this play with AK, a flush draw, J9, and tons of two pair? Donks overestimate their strength all the time. You are def behind to oversets, JK, and J9 but seriously dude 2:1. I'm never folding this.

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I agree, but with those hands, he's more likely to bet than call, which is why I really don't like shoving flop. I shove turn though because a river spade can kill action.

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There's so many possible bad cards for us on the turn and we dont know which ones they are. So I think it's best just to get it in on the flop.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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I think your statement that we're beat here 'pretty often' is misleading because that would suggest we're beat here more than 50% of the time which I think is pretty clear that we're not.

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wtf are you talking about. 'Pretty often' doesn't have to imply more than 50%, it's an intentionally vague term.

Also discussion of whether to put the money in on the flop is really dumb and results oreinted unless it takes UTG+1 into account. this hand should have been a multi-parter.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

being that he just called the PF raise, there is less chance he has AA or QQ, so if you weigh those as a small part of his range, this can be KJ, AQ,AT or even a big draw that missed and is now hoping you will fold

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

This is only sick if he has exactly KJ. However, he could have numerous draws, two pair, or AK. Yes, sometimes you will be beat, but you can't fold here and you should get it in on the flop.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

You have a set. Get it in. Why you still have money behind on the river is a complete mystery to me.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

I don't see why we're so scared after villain coldcalls the flop. A combo draws or maybe a cautiously played two pair makes a lot more sense, even if we assume villain is a donk. I could see calling the flop if you're going to get it in on a blank turn, but calling down is pretty atrocious. I shove turn and don't think twice about it.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

imo its spewy to just call the flop. We have a set on a draw heavy board, half the deck we either dont like or will kill the action. the cold callers range is so much more than KJ and higher sets. Assuming the average nl100 player is thinking and setting some trap here is dumb

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

Since all seems to be said, I'd like to ask for results.

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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Since all seems to be said, I'd like to ask for results.

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kj ldo

Re: 100NL 150BBs Deep SO SICK
 

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[ ] SO SICK

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