More lost than Kate and Jack
 

I'm having a rough session at the Borgata 20/40 where nothing seems to be going right. Currently I have a 100 dollar bounty whereby I explained that whoever could deliver my 3rd 1-outer of the weekend I"d give them an extra 100 bucks. So it's no secret that my cards are not cooperating.

Anywho.

Utg raises and can best be described as by the book weak. He raises good cards and limps with mediocre ones. He is by no means a strong player.

I 3-bet Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] next and the button (crazy/douchebag/greek Mike) cold calls saying "nines any good?" This clearly means he does not have nines.

The bb is sorta weird, has folded JJ to a single preflop raise but has limped utg with 67o. He says "i normally would never call" and calls.

Utg calls.

Flop comes 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bb checks, utg donks, I raise, button comes to life and 3-bets saying "Woah three nines!" Again, he clearly does not have a set of nines" BB groans and calls 3, utg calls, I?

I'm going to post this one in stages, if that's not a good idea just let me know and I'll post the whole hand.

Thoughts on what to do on the flop and then on various turns.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Call and raise/donk a safe turn.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

I would just cap now.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call and raise/donk a safe turn.

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What would be a "safe turn"?

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

I would just call and await developments. The raise is not going to get anybody out.
The problem actually is that there aren't that many "safe" turn cards. With people calling 2 and 3 cold all sorts of draws are out there. Any card b/w 2 and 8 completes a straight (so does an Ace besides being an overcard) any spade completes a flush and the hero's b/d flush draw is not that strong, and even 10 or J could easily give someone a set or 2 pair, in addition to putting even more draws on the board.
Even if someone is pumping A-9 what do the other 2 have? Is Mike capable of cold calling (vs. capping) w/ Aces or Kings preflop?

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

I just cap now because I feel just calling may lead us to making a disaster and folding the best hand on the turn sometimes.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

seems like a cap and hope. i can't think of a good way to protect your hand, but it is probably ahead right now.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Sounds like a pretty loose game, Im not sure I would cap. Part of me whats to say that the "9s guy" might be telling the truth, if not someone else is calling with at least a flush draw, there are too many scare cards IMO to warrant a cap. Call and plan to muck if spade or another 9 and action continues.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Nice thread title.

I would cap considering your read and players like the villian you describe sometimes go crazy on the flop but slow down big time on the turn and river. The other players probably have draws of some kind as two pair would probably raise(unless they're really bad). I bet Villian has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9X

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Ok so I capped and everyone called.

Turn was a 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I bet and they called again.

River was a 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] BB checked, utg checked, I bet, button called BB yelled "raise" and utg flashed me red queens.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

You can't win. If the pot was 100 bigger you could call and hope he misread his hand I guess. The BB is groaning on the flop for a reason. Apparently because he has a terrible 9 with two hearts, 63/A3/8h6h/7h6h/7h3h.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Yeah I folded and button called with red kings.

Boring hand, just a checkup.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Man I have no idea how the BB is CR bluffing the river, but I also have ZERO clue what could have played so retarded. Alright, didn't see the backdoor hearts, guess that's it. Seems like the button has maybe TT or JJ, although he might have capped those preflop.

There is zero chance I can fold this for one bet, although folding is probably best.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

(haven't looked at what others said yet)

I think you cap the flop.

Then, if a blank hits the turn, and you are donked into, you fold.

If you are checked to on the turn, then you are bet/folding.

It just seems like one of those spots where playing your hand stronger up front makes it easier to play on later streets, so thats why I say cap the flop.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man I have no idea how the BB is CR bluffing the river, but I also have ZERO clue what could have played so retarded. Alright, didn't see the backdoor hearts, guess that's it. Seems like the button has maybe TT or JJ, although he might have capped those preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't beat any hand that c/r the river. I'm inclined to wait for the turn to pop it up. No one with any draw is folding the flop, waiting till the turn to raise pushes a bigger edge against the draws, and can save you money if the draw gets there.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

I'd wait till the turn to raise, there are indeed lots of scare cards and we may already be behind so our equity isn't the greatest here. Capping it may make it easier to play on later streets, but that's rarely a good reason to put a raise in. The pot is huge your goal is to find the best way to win it, not to find an easier fold later on.

I don't see how you can call the river.

Re: More lost than Kate and Jack
 

Crazy Mike was trying to do you a favor here. I would have sucked along to his three nines he didn't have too.

I lost to that sort of hand in a tourney in Florida last winter. I called a short stack all in raiser with QQ, and the player behind me with a larger stack pushed all in for a three way showdown. The all in had QQ, I had my QQ and the all in behind me (with a larger stack than me) had AK and rivered a K.

Tough beat in either 20/40 or NL tourney. It was a correctly played hand. If you would have waited for the turn to raise, it would make no difference. Perhaps I check and call the river for an overcall since its still three ways.