25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Villain is 25/10/2.2 after 100 hands

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $48.70
BB: $32.85
UTG: $24.95
BTN: $28.15

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="red">BTN raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.50</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">UTG raises all-in to $24.95

Pot Size: $8.50

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

I fold this. It's almost always AA/KK

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Vilain will have AA and KK often here. Sometimes he will have AK.

Against AA or KK you have 18.9% equity on your call and against AK it's 56%. I think he will show AA and KK more often though. So let's say you have about 30% equity to your call. Pot odds give you 41% do you think he will push with a lesser hand more than 11% of the times?

I would probably fold there unless he's been pushing alot like that.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Call. He thinks your stealing. You will see J3s a huge number of times. Very few people push with AA preflop anyway. I would really worry about a minraise, not a push.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

ok thx guys.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call. He thinks your stealing. You will see J3s a huge number of times. Very few people push with AA preflop anyway. I would really worry about a minraise, not a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

mind explaining this? Personally if i were him i would hesitate to judge BOTH raisers as trying to steal - it's just too unlikely. Going all in with J3s in a multiway reraised preflop pot is absurd in my opinion - simply not enough folding equity vs two raisers. and when people 4-bet with AA it's almost always a push... so what are you saying?

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call. He thinks your stealing. You will see J3s a huge number of times. Very few people push with AA preflop anyway. I would really worry about a minraise, not a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a sick read you've got there. In my world, limp/RRAI=AA KK unless otherwise proven and a 100 hand sample is not enough to make that J3 read.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call. He thinks your stealing. You will see J3s a huge number of times. Very few people push with AA preflop anyway. I would really worry about a minraise, not a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a sick read you've got there. In my world, limp/RRAI=AA KK unless otherwise proven and a 100 hand sample is not enough to make that J3 read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I really don't think you'll see this after a raise and rr, unless the guy is super aggro or something.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

a lot of times limp/rr is a fish with something like 99 that can't let it go but is scared to take a flop. if you had just raised, i'd be pretty optimistic. since someone raised in front of you and you 3bet, not so much.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

I am saying villain is a fishy. If he was not, he probably would not limp/shove in a 4 handed game. Logic does not apply. He may have AA, he may have J3s. There are way more J3s in his range hence the call.

Limp/raise is a milking-trapping move by nature. If he wants to trap or milk a little more, he will raise a little. To invite loose calls and bluffs. People are very consistent in their trends when they have a big hand. Shoving does not fit here.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Limp reraise is always KK/AA. He will not show J3 at this spot. No way in hell. Fold QQ.

People overbet alot to rep a bluff, but usually when they overbet, they have the goods.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

I would fold this. Limp/reraise all-in is scary, plus (something it seems the posters forgot here), the Button is still to act, and being the pfraiser, he could have a monster too. BTW, I think your pre-flop reraise was too small. Being OOP, I would make it about 4.50.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Only call if your opponent is a maniac shoving preflop every four or five hands, but against all other players, you are up against Aces or Kings most of the time.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call. He thinks your stealing. You will see J3s a huge number of times. Very few people push with AA preflop anyway. I would really worry about a minraise, not a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is always a chance that villian is bluffing, but in this spot there is no reason for villian to believe you are trying to pick up the pot BEFORE the flop after a limp and a raise.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Fold.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed...I remember once reading Cloutier saying something about a Re-Re-Re-Raise being, in his words, "99% pur Ivory Snow Aces."

Who knows? Maybe the guy's maniacal, but why waste almost your whole stack on a pair. But hey, I'm a n00b...

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Micros full of nits [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Perhaps I should incorporate limp shoving a 3bet with 72o into my arsenal.

ps BWT, following this logic you should also fold KK here. QQ is no different than KK in this spot.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Micros full of nits [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Perhaps I should incorporate limp shoving a 3bet with 72o into my arsenal.

ps BWT, following this logic you should also fold KK here. QQ is no different than KK in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

22,259,952 games 0.031 secs 718,062,967 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 20.701% 16.81% 03.89% 3742824 865137.00 { QcQd }
Hand 1: 79.299% 75.41% 03.89% 16786854 865137.00 { KK+, QcQh, QcQs, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs }





Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

22,259,952 games 0.005 secs 4,451,990,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.995% 46.10% 03.89% 10262230 866591.00 { KcKd }
Hand 1: 50.005% 46.11% 03.89% 10264540 866591.00 { AA, KcKh, KcKs, KdKh, KdKs, KhKs, QQ }



Iff AK is included at least some of the combos it gets better for KK too.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

you think hes 5-betting J3? at best ur racing.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

Using pokerstove makes you look smart indeed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But he never has QQ here. Its either AA/KK or atc.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

I've seen this play done with a much wider range of hands than AA/KK. pp's, AJ-A9. Really depends on if villain really does limp/rr AA, and how the villain views you and your bet. You see a lot of really weird stuff at uNL, this isn't always AA.

Re: 25nl QQ what do we do here?
 

I see AA/KK limp UTG 6 handed a fair amount.

Would you expect it to happen less or more 4-handed?

I would say less.

I would probably just go with queens here.