Getting started in kettlebell training
 

I'm seriously considering getting started in it.
So what does a beginner need?
I was told a 16kg kettlebell and "Enter the Kettlebell" by pavel.

Is this the best book on kettlebell training? Is it complete on it's own? (I've heard you have to buy "power to the people" to go with it.)

Is the one kettlebell enough? or will I end up having to buy several?

Thanks

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

start with 1, see if you like it, if you can borrow one from someone do that first, 2 is really great though, but first see if you like it, i learned a lot more from mike mahler than from pavel, check out his site.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm seriously considering getting started in it.
So what does a beginner need?
I was told a 16kg kettlebell and "Enter the Kettlebell" by pavel.

Is this the best book on kettlebell training? Is it complete on it's own? (I've heard you have to buy "power to the people" to go with it.)

Is the one kettlebell enough? or will I end up having to buy several?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends what your goals are. For the average guy, a 1 pood is fine for doing higher rep ballistics, and okay for doing the lower rep grinds. There are also more difficult drills where a 1 pood is certainly fine.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

There is a big kettlebell thread that was started in OOT a couple years back. Strongly recommend looking it up. I think something about Drink the Kool-Aid or however you spell it was in the title.

Enter the Kettlebell is fine, but get it at Amazon, where it is steeply discounted, not from Pavel's site. The RKC book has more variety. I also highly recommend Steve Cotter's DVD's. Check his website for some video samples of some of the cool and really tough stuff he does with them, like duck walks, dragon walks, towel swings, and doing multiple things at once! Really inspiring.

The 1 pood(35 pounds) KB is a must for learning tricky overhead manuevers like the windmill that you will find as you go through kettlebell materials of various sorts. It is also very good to have to learn things that are trickier than basic presses, like the clean and jerk, the swing, etc. You will benefit from using heavier weights with these latter exercises, but there is a knack to kettlebells(that is actually very fun to learn), and a light one at first will help you feel and learn it.

A man of virtually any strength level will quickly outgrow the 1 pood. The average guy gets along well with the 1 1/2 pood, the one that weighs about 53 pounds. This should last you a while.

One important note: dragondoor KB's aren't the only ones out there. They are nice, but very pricey. A smart way to buy from that source is to go to e-bay, where they have their own store. You can sometimes get them 1/3 to 1/2 off, which is pretty significant when it comes to stuff this pricey. I'd advise starting to watch the auctions daily for a week at least to see where the good prices are. There will always be some numb nuts who pays top dollar, but it doesn't have to be you.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

JTB's oot thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

op, thanks for reminding me about these...I just ordered one and it should be here in a day or two. That oot thread has all the info you need. Pretty stoked to add these into my routine.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

https://www.lifeline-usa.com/product...;productid=129

Anybody have experience with the KB's I linked above? They are Lifeline KB's and are the ones Mike Mahler endorses on his website. Taking into account the shipping costs when comparing these to dragon door KB's, it looks like you can save a significant amount by ordering from Lifeline. Blarg, AZK, anyone else have experience with these? If so, what are your thoughts? Mahler says the only difference b/w Lifeline and Dragon Door KB's is that the Lifeline's handles are slightly larger that DD's and they also don't have the gloss finish - which Mahler says is an advantage b/c they are less likely to slip. Scroll down to the "Where do I get kettlebell's" Q for Mahler's opinion on the different KB's on the market.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

K2 fitness

I ordered a 16kg from here and I like it better than Dragon Door's. If you want a dragon door kettlebell go to the forum at dragondoor.com or google and search for an RKC instructor in your area. They get them in bulk and sell them sometimes. I did this and got my 1.5 pood KB for $100 no shipping.

For OP I would reccomend doing Enter the kettlebell. If you stick to the program you will see great results.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]
https://www.lifeline-usa.com/product...;productid=129

Anybody have experience with the KB's I linked above? They are Lifeline KB's and are the ones Mike Mahler endorses on his website. Taking into account the shipping costs when comparing these to dragon door KB's, it looks like you can save a significant amount by ordering from Lifeline. Blarg, AZK, anyone else have experience with these? If so, what are your thoughts? Mahler says the only difference b/w Lifeline and Dragon Door KB's is that the Lifeline's handles are slightly larger that DD's and they also don't have the gloss finish - which Mahler says is an advantage b/c they are less likely to slip. Scroll down to the "Where do I get kettlebell's" Q for Mahler's opinion on the different KB's on the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like wider handles. I had a KB made by I think Powermax, a 35 pounder(1 pood) that had a really thick handle and I liked it very much. It was also much cheaper, especially as to the shipping costs, which is where DD really kills you. They've managed to find a way to make the shipping cost as much as the bell sometimes -- and their bells are expensive! Got my Powermax thru Amazon btw.

As to the finish on DD bells, I got my last one almost a year ago, so I don't know if the finishes are any different by now. I don't think the ones I have are too slippery at all. Also, that's kind of a non-issue if you are willing to sand your bell handles, as lots of people do. Or use chalk, or just keep a towel around to wipe your hands on every once in a while. I don't think that's really a particularly good criticism on Mike's part. That said, I do like the rougher finish on my powermax just fine, and I may even prefer it. Just on the handles, though. I like the high-quality paint elsewhere.

What does seem like a legit criticism is Mike's pointing out how thin the handles are on the women's KB's. I also don't like that, as I recall, some of them have the handles that look more triangular and are flat across the gripping part, with narrow ends on the gripping part of the handles. This seems much worse for hand comfort.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Wow I had no idea you could get them so cheap from instructors, good tip, quadzilla.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've skimmed through the other thread and decided to get enter the kettlebell book and dvd along with a 16kg and 24kg kettlebell.

I understand the book and dvd are beginner routines. What is the next book/dvd to progress from here?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Check out Steve Cotter's FullKOntact.com for his video samples. He has a two volume encyclopedia out, and also two others(I have them, they're great) with an emphasis on preparing the body for fighting/fighting sports with kettlebells.

For Pavel's stuff, I'd recommend reading The Naked Warrior for good stuff about proper tension techniques. But get it at Amazon, so it will be much much cheaper. The book isn't about kettlebells, just exercise principles.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

So my kettlebell from Agatsu Canada arrived on Fri but I didn't get a change to do a real workout until yesterday. I spent $114CAD for a 16kg bell, an instructional DVD and it also came with an e-book that demonstrated a bunch of different excercises. Seemed like a decent deal and that price included courier service. Took 3 days from ordering to door-step (DVD hasn't arrived yet though) .

The kettlebell seems to be made as well as a hunk of iron can be, handle is smooth, and the finish is really nice.

Initial impressions:

1) holy [censored] I'm weak. I thought 32lbs was going to be to light, but I would say that it is actually the perfect wait for me to start out on. Any lighter and I wouldn't really feel like I was working, and with the next size up my form would really suffer.

2) The only time I ever lifted before was in HS gym class and I hated it. After using this kettlebell for one day I know that I will have no problem keeping this up 3-4 times a week.

3) My form probably sucks pretty bad. I watched a couple of videos on proper squat technique and I think I am squatting and swinging okay. I had my gf watch my squats/swings to make sure I was mainting some resemblance to proper form for those.

The things that I feel like I probably could be doing better is the, cleans and presses. The kettlebell is banging pretty hard into my forearm on cleans, I have tried adding a punching motion at the end of the clean to help, but I must be doing something wrong here.

On 1 handed presses, I don't really know what the proper path of motion should be. Like should the weight be starting from the 'clean' position every time, should my arm be rotating at all as I extend it etc etc. Does Enter The Kettlebell cover proper form?

4) not kettlebell related really, but I have no idea about how to best go about achieving my goals of getting stronger. What I did was:

10 two handed swings,
7 one handed presses on each hand (only cleaned the kb on the first one th)
10 goblet squats
30 around the body passes in each direction.

I repeated this 4 times and I don't feel to sore today, my legs definitley feel like they were worked yesterday but other than that not too bad, no lower back pain etc. I just guessed about how many reps to do for each excercise, cuz I really have no idea what I should be doing.

Does this look like an okay program to start out with if I do it every other day, with an hour of cycling on most other days? My goals are just to get stronger, particularly in my core since I sit at a computer all day/night.

5) Just in general, the workout was easy to get into and took a half hour or less. I don't thing I'll have trouble getting motivated to do it (for the first few weeks anyways) and I can tell already it's going to make a big difference (duh).

All in all I'm really happy I decided to try them out and am looking forward to improving my form and technique.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Glad you gave them a try; I agree that they aren't nearly as boring as regular weight lifting, because the balance factor means you really feel that working them is a challenging skill practice rather than just moving weight alone. It gives you something to conquer in the way a sport does, so a work-out is not just a work-out. I usually have to force myself to put the bells down or leave them alone, because my body may have had enough, but I really still want to be messing around working on my form and such.

On the forearm thing, it will come in time. Try dropping your elbow in and moving it up and forward. You can also squat a bit at the knees to help get your body in position and to take a bit of the shock. Everybody finds this a little tricky at first, but keep working on it. This is one reason why it's good for everyone to get the bell size you got, too. Imagine having a 54 or 70 pounder banging on your forearm when you're a beginner instead. It would really be offputting. Master form on the 35 pounder first.

I have no idea what goblet squats are.

In general, you should have at least one full-body leg exercise, one upper body push, and one upper body pull. You need to get your back in there somewhere. A light kettlebell isn't the greatest for that. Maybe do some pull-ups? I'd suggest buying ETK for a more rounded program, or the Russian Kettlebell Challenge, for a whole bunch of different exercises that are fun to learn, like the windmill, turkish get-up, etc. Around the body passes seem more like something you should do when you have your basics covered first.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Blarg, I just tried cleaning the KB while dropping my knees a bit when it got to the top and it definitely helps.

Thanks for the routine advice, I am actually doing pullups quite a bit too. I have a bar in the door frame of my office and use it fairly regularly as a quick stress reliever. I just ordered ETK so we'll see how that goes.

This guy does a goblet squat around 30 sec in. Basically jsut a squat with the KB held upside down by the handle in front of you.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

You can get some really good leg exercise by doing pistols(one legged squats), too, and if you add a kettlebell, it can even make balancing easier. It's much harder than what you're doing, so give it a try when you're ready to move up a bit.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

On the presses, do the Arnold Press. Clean the bell and immediately cramp the lat (pointing the elbow to the ground helps), and focus on keeping the shoulder packed down throughout the movement. After the clean your palm should be facing the midline of your body and as you press it, your arm will rotate so that the palm of your hand is facing away from you at the top. Also imagine pushing yourself away from the weight.
Knowing that, and keeping your wrist and forearm straight, will allow you to find the proper path with a little practice.

Hope that helps. The most helpful thing is to keep that lat cramped. That will carryover to heavy bent presses, side presses, get-ups, etc. and will kind of dictate the proper path on the press. Some of the finer points don't become apparent until the weights start to increase.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

All I know is if my personal trainer had me doing kettlebells, 10 of you would be on here telling me to demand my money back. I think that would happen anyway.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

ten retards?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

t.y.v.m. longbody, very helpful.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

I live in UK and I emailed Mike Mahler asking which kettlebell to get from UK (importing is out of the question) anyway he recommended londonkettlebells.com so anyway I'm still waiting for them to restock. As I said earlier I'll be getting a 16kg and 24kg.

They are offering a free dvd:
Mike Mahler size and strength
Mike Mahler speed and explosive strength
Mike Mahler fatloss and mental toughness
Art Of strength Providence
Art of strength Newport
Art of strength firepower
Kettlebells the iron core way volume1
Kettlebells the iron core way volume2

SO which one should I get for the complete beginner?
I've got ETK dvd and am expecting the book anyday soon.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Blarg

How "complete" is Steve Cotter's encyclopedia volume one?
I don't really want a massive collection of kettlebell dvds so I am considering just encyclopedia volume one to go with ETK (and maybe one other). I have a funny feeling if I watch volume one that I'll end up with volume two and along with his others?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

I've never seen Mahler's stuff, but have seen nothing but tremendous praise for his kettlebells for size and strength one. However, it is oriented toward using double kettlebells of the same weight, so while you will likely learn a lot that is useful, the routines themselves won't really fit you if you have different weight bells. I'd very strongly warn against using two different weight bells, especially for overhead lifts. Kettlebells are off-balance in the first place, and using them overhead at different weights is much more dangerous than, say, doing that with dumbbells. I also would avoid double KB swings with two different size kettlebells, as your lower back is much involved, and I can see harm and imbalance coming out of that easily.

I'll put in another word for Steve Cotter's FullKOntact kettlebells DVD's. I own both and they're great. Their emphasis is on using KB's in ways that will pay off for martial arts, and there's a lot of leg work in there. You can go to his website and see short clips for free. His towel-swings and duckwalks while towel-swinging and pressing KB's are tremendous. Lots of his stuff starts out simple, but variations gives you really cool goals to work toward.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

If I'm buying 3 kettlebells should I get...
1) 16kg 16kg 24kg or
2) 16kg 24kg 32kg

?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

depends.

If you want to work more on things like bent presses, windmills, TGUs, overhead squats, military presses, etc., get the 16-24-32 setup. Working up to the 32 doesn't take all that long with the grinding lifts.

If you want to work a lot of two arm or one-arm high rep stuff go with the 16-16-24. You might wish you went with two 24s and a 16 though if you don't feel like buying more bells in a while. 16s are pretty light, but I still use one for juggling, and hand to hand (Jeff Martone's dvd) stuff. You could also start working the competition lifts with two 24s.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

I'd also recommend Pavel's Super Joints book or dvd, or Steve Maxwell's follow along joint mobility dvd, because you're going to get sore and tight, and nothing is better for loosening up tight backs and shoulders than a good joint mobility program.

I haven't seen Cotter's dvds, but I think he does this stuff in some of them with kettlebells.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

If you get two, I'd make them the 24's, for a male. longbody is right that the grinds will get you to 32 surprisingly quickly, even if you're not very strong at all. So two 16's will be, well, "underkill," I guess.

I think you'd be better off not doubling up on anything until you have at least a 16, a 24, and a 32. Also, I'd ignore all the weights in between. If a bell is too heavy for a while, just do holds with it, partial reps, or negatives, and you will make surprising progress quickly. Gaining moderate strength is not nearly as hard as gaining mass, and can come pretty quickly.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]


I think you'd be better off not doubling up on anything until you have at least a 16, a 24, and a 32.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blarg what I don't understand is that if I'm using worked my way up to one 32kg then wouldn't I have out grown the 16 and 24 and if so isn't it pointless to double up on these?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

My guess is that it is a significant leap in skill to handle two balls at once.

I'd imagine that once you start using two at once you're going to want to back down a level on the weights again until you're really confident cleaning two at once etc.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think you'd be better off not doubling up on anything until you have at least a 16, a 24, and a 32.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blarg what I don't understand is that if I'm using worked my way up to one 32kg then wouldn't I have out grown the 16 and 24 and if so isn't it pointless to double up on these?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not big on getting two KB's of the same weight, but some people like to do that. I think you're much better off getting one of every standard weight (35, 54, 70) up to at least the 88 before you go back and double up.

Regarding outgrowing weights, you will always use different weights for different exercises. For instance, you will outgrow a 70 for bent over rows very quickly and for military presses eventually, but it will take you a long time to outgrow a 54 pounder for windmills or turkish get-ups or high-pulls or snatches. A 35 pounder is also by far the best and safest to learn a new exercise on, and is worth using for a while on any new exercise to refine technique.

Additionally, there are different types of work-outs that go best with different weights. If you are doing swings, you can get a good work-out with a 54 or a 70 or an 88, whatever. They're just different work-outs. It depends how you want to put your scheme of reps/sets together, for your goals and comfort.

Finally, if you eventually duplicate weights, you have new work-out possibilities and again breathe new life into old weights, as using and balancing two kb's requires more stabilization and is harder.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Hi Blarg
I ordered both Steve Cotter's encycopedia's on your recommendation. The kettlebells are being delivered on tuesday hopefully.

Have you seen Extreme Kettlebell Workout ?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

I have not seen Cotter's encyclopedias. The ones I have are his FullKOntact videos. I've heard good things about the encyclopedias, but if I created any impression that I have seen them, I apologize.

I haven't seen the DVD's you're talking about. The four I have seen are the original RKC DVD, the follow-up (Red cover, forget the name, but it's not the ETK one), one you can download online from a guy named Andrey who is a very nice Russian guy who does girevoy sport, a kettlebell lifting sport; and Cotters's two FullKOntact videos.

Hope you enjoy the KB's! Most everyone seems to. Start slow and master flipping the bell over so it gets really smooth and doesn't bang the hell out of your arm. Give us a trip report!

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check out Steve Cotter's FullKOntact.com for his video samples. He has a two volume encyclopedia out, and also two others(I have them, they're great) with an emphasis on preparing the body for fighting/fighting sports with kettlebells.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmmm this is slightly misleading loooool nevermind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

Heh sorry. I didn't see it could be read that way at the time. Oh well, from what I've heard at any rate, the ones you're getting should be pretty good. And there sure will be a ton of exercises there.

As the OP noted though, don't expect high production values. Which can be a little off-putting at first blush. But the guy is a solid athlete, even gifted, and if his encyclopedias are as good as his FullKOntact vids, your money won't have been ill-spent.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]

I ordered both Steve Cotter's encycopedia's

[/ QUOTE ]

I ordered both encyclopedias and posted on them here.

I'm happy with them.

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Blarg
I ordered both Steve Cotter's encycopedia's on your recommendation. The kettlebells are being delivered on tuesday hopefully.

Have you seen Extreme Kettlebell Workout ?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, what do you think of Cotter's encyclopedias?

Re: Getting started in kettlebell training
 

So far I've only seen the introduction, the chapters on swings and the turkish get up lunge style. The program guide is quite advance for me as I don't know what most of the excercises are yet. From what I've seen I think I'm pretty impressed.
Anyway I've decided to stick with the enterthekettlebell program for now, it's excellent for beginners IMO everyone should start on this. It only covers the swing, the get up, the clean, the press and the snatch. I'm following the "rite of passage" program which tells you step by step what to do which is really simple but highly affective.