God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

Villain is very laggy, like 30/25, with a 50 ATSB, and doesn't fold to 3 bets much. AggFreq postflop is a little high too.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$5/$10 Blinds
6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero: $3,418.55
weddy65: $1,000.00
harrydebeng: $535.00
TakeUrCheese: $1,010.00
bamboo6386: $1,720.00
Pechorin: $3,005.75

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
harrydebeng folds, TakeUrCheese folds, bamboo6386 folds, <font color="red">Pechorin raises to $35.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $115.00</font>, weddy65 folds, Pechorin calls $80.00

I tend to re-raise larger when I'm going to be OOP (and this tendency is amplified when I have monsters). Here, since we are so deep, I figure there's no amount I can raise to properly punish set mining, except to make a bet so large it only gets called by AA. Therefore, I just click pot and figure I'll be trying to keep the pot small(?!) postflop.

Flop: ($240) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $175.00</font>, Pechorin calls $175.00

Turn: ($590) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)

I'll stop here for now...

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

this can be so many hands on the flop...he can float here with a huge % of his range, but how often does he raise is draws/sets? is he really tricky? this deep id expect him to raise both to get more money in so its easier to get ai if he hits/if he has already hit

t8, tj 97 q9 99 77 kq(?) aq(?) qj all seem to be in his range...i think i like a c/c or a b/f..but i think i like c/c better and im not sure if thats the best play

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I check-call.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

Check calling twice is fine against a lagtard, there aren't many rivers you can think about folding on if you take this line though.

I don't particularly mind another strong bet though since this should discourage moves and if he rarely folds to 3bets he may well have something he wants to show down and will pay off with.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

You fail to mention how you're playing/how he views you.

have you been 3 betting his steals a lot ?

Given stacks his call pf (you mention he doesn't fold much to 3 bets ) and on the flop are standard and don't really give any signifiers as to his hand strength.

If you check will he bet his QT or T9 on the turn (&amp; river ) ?
Will he call a turn bet with the above &amp; what % of his range will he raise ?

If he is aggro as you say a CC turn &amp; river is probably the cheapest way to showdown -

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

i'd go for a c/c both turn river

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

Ok, sounds like my instincts were right with regards to checking turn. With one pair this deep, I really only want two streets of betting to occur.

Turn: ($590) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, Pechorin checks

River: ($590) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)

This is a lousy river. But my plan was for two bets to occur. Should I put one in?

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

depends on how light you think he can vb. i think betting&gt;checking but getting raised would suck because he could easily have an 8, and could well be bluffing too (would he turn a made hand into a bluff here?). i think b/f would be prudent.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I don't like betting the river here without a clear idea of what you do if you're raised. It seems to me that he could easily have an 8 here, but also that a player like this may well bluff raise here, as it is pretty unlikely that you have a hand that can call a raise easily here.

Given that villain is very aggro, it seems that he may well bluff at the pot if you check it to him twice, or could value bet with a worse hand. I don't think winning a small pot here is that bad a result, and you do want to get to showdown here, so I think check/call is probably the best plan.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

check/call v this villain

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check calling twice is fine against a lagtard, there aren't many rivers you can think about folding on if you take this line though.

I don't particularly mind another strong bet though since this should discourage moves and if he rarely folds to 3bets he may well have something he wants to show down and will pay off with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

depends on your image but I'd prob bet until he raises or there arent any more streets

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

how is villain ever bluffing if we check to him?

if hes betting its a value bet.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I like a bet-fold on the river unless he's big on valuebetting superthin or bluffraising. Check-calling just lets him check down so much of what will call one bet.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
how is villain ever bluffing if we check to him?

if hes betting its a value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can def be valuebetting worse there.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
depends on your image but I'd prob bet until he raises or there arent any more streets

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

villain thinks u have AK so c/c river

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

i would raise more preflop. he's going to call a wide range and you want to get value. i liked the c/c turn and river plan, now i'd c/c river. i think he'll vbet a Q and make some bluffs as well. not too many hands htat he'll call with but won't bet with, and it'd suck to get raised off this hand by a bluff.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how is villain ever bluffing if we check to him?

if hes betting its a value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can def be valuebetting worse there.

[/ QUOTE ]


i know, but hes never bluffing thats what im saying.

whether you should c/c or b/f (or maybe b/c - probably not) depends on the difference between his betting and calling range. It also depends on whether he can turn a hand with showdown value into a bluff.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

River: ($590) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $390.00</font>, <font color="red">Pechorin raises to $1,370.00</font>

Part of me feels like I induced a bluff-raise, but it's really easy for him to have T8s/98s/78s here, and his turn check is very consistent with pair+draw hands. His raise seems almost too big for value, unless he has T8s and is hoping I have 8x.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I'd fold now I think, I do like the river bet though.

But I probably just bet the turn and river like Morrek said.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

i only like checking the turn for a c/r, but i don't really like it given the coordination of the board.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

Ah you really need to bet this turn. When playing deep people often play way to scared / go for to much pot control. On the turn you're good most of the time as he has a draw / some sort of pair. Most players arent good enough to put in 300 bb on a bluff so just bet bet bet.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
i only like checking the turn for a c/r, but i don't really like it given the coordination of the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r and folding to a 3b?

i dont like it because were so deep. can explain why you want to c/r?

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I prefer a turn bet, nothing huge, 2/3 pot seems fine

I think even LAGs are going to play their hands relatively straight forwardly here considering the action and the stacks

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
depends on your image but I'd prob bet until he raises or there arent any more streets

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree with morrek

i pretty much never slow down here.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

If you bet river i'd prefer a smaller bet, so that he'll feel inclined to raise a bigger part of his range, and probably call with a few extra hands because of the good odds. and then call a raise, of course. As it stands you're in a tougher spot.

Turn I don't mind a c/c, but betting is also fine. it opens you up to facing a raise earlier, but if he's capable of raising light (which he very well should be) then thats alright, i think you'll still be making money by calling it. Once you do though, your hand is a little transparent, so you probably should c/f to a significant river bet. If you think he's quite capable of raising turn and betting river big as a bluff, then i prefer not to bet the turn in the first place.


And your thoughts on preflop raise size are fine too. He's probably not folding anything when you're this deep, so you may as well just put in a regular-size raise. Calling is also an option, especially if the BB is aggressive/squeezy, though i'll probably get booed for that idea.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

Repop more pre, it doesn't matter that you can't price him out of set value, you can still give him a worse price that he will still pay.

Also, are you Nevrborn?

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

c/c the river but what about if he goes AI? first instinct says to fold if he did but we become pretty expolitable if we fold this everytime IMO..

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/c the river but what about if he goes AI? first instinct says to fold if he did but we become pretty expolitable if we fold this everytime IMO..

[/ QUOTE ]

werd

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Repop more pre, it doesn't matter that you can't price him out of set value, you can still give him a worse price that he will still pay.

Also, are you Nevrborn?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, he's FristSux.

I mean, wtf, hiding your name but exposing everyone else's. WTF.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Repop more pre, it doesn't matter that you can't price him out of set value, you can still give him a worse price that he will still pay.

Also, are you Nevrborn?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, he's FristSux.

I mean, wtf, hiding your name but exposing everyone else's. WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya. Who is Nevrborn though?

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, wtf, hiding your name but exposing everyone else's. WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]
What is wrong with that? It's not like he posted everyone at the tables 2+2 nick together with their FT nick.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, wtf, hiding your name but exposing everyone else's. WTF.

[/ QUOTE ]
The converter does that. And my name is public knowledge, I've never tried to hide it.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i only like checking the turn for a c/r, but i don't really like it given the coordination of the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r and folding to a 3b?

i dont like it because were so deep. can explain why you want to c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

its not my favorite option, just the only thing i'd do if i checked. just mixing it up sometimes.

also, and i'm addressing this to the entire thread...

JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE DEEP DOESNT MEAN THAT YOU STOP BETTING FOR VALUE. YOU CAN FOLD IF HE RAISES. WORRY ABOUT RAISES WHEN THEY COME, NOT BEFORE.

/rant

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

i dunno why you are so reluctant to just 3 barrel this

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

I don't really know why you wanted to keep the pot small, but if thats the case I think you should check the flop.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really know why you wanted to keep the pot small, but if thats the case I think you should check the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

check/call v this villain. He is likely to bluff this nasty river.

Re: God I\'m so clueless 300bb deep
 

i apologize for my drunken post last night, i dunno why i was being such a dick