60 overshove TT?
 

button has been being abusive w/ stack. also looks like an isolation move. i dunno...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t1815)
UTG (t915)
MP (t1940)
CO (t2140)
Button (t5010)
Hero (t1680)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>, <font color="#666666">

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

i push here. ug is so short, he could have about anything. TT should be ahead of the button's range given your description.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

I really think a shove is bad here. First of all we have a minraise utg, which could mean a lot of things.
It could be a monster, or simply a bad attempt at stealing. But until otherwise noted, I have to give a utg minraiser some respect. The real problem arises when the button minraises.
He is 99% sure that utg will call, and therefore potcommit him. His hand just screams a lot of strength, and without a read i would fold TT here without a second though (and JJ too).

EDIT:

Misread utgs stacksize, def. would not fold JJ here.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

can these situations always acurately be analized by sngwiz? i'm putting utg at 24% , never folding, and button at 10% never folding, and its still a push..

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

What do we know about UTG? UTG could easily justify shoving here, yet UTG minraises. Either UTG is clueless or UTG is looking for action.

In the former case I think you can make an argument for pushing, in the latter case, dump TT.

Jeff

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

Easy fold imo. Remember the gap concept and that you have no FE.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

UTG is not min-raising 24% of hands. That may be a large part of why sngwiz is telling you to shove.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

Ya any info on UTG would be crucial, but with none and given info on the button I'm never folding here. I think you crush the button's range and you only have to beat him to break almost even.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

Push

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

The button knows utg is all-in. UTG min-raised 5 bb's. TT is g00t enough to gamble?

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
can these situations always acurately be analized by sngwiz? i'm putting utg at 24% , never folding, and button at 10% never folding, and its still a push..

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe SnGWiz compares your push EQ with the EQ with *current* stacks, to decide if its a push?

If so, it does make a significant mistake here. We can expect BU to be quite ahead of UTG - i.e. even if we fold here, our EQ at the end of the hand will be higher than "now". Thus, we would have to compare EQ|PU vs "Post-Hand-EQ"|Fold, to decide if a hand is a push.

I think SnGWiz &amp; SNGPT are both biased towards looser pushing here.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe SnGWiz compares your push EQ with the EQ with *current* stacks, to decide if its a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

This assumption is incorrect. When you fold, the Wizard analyzes all possible actions of your opponents, including when they get all-in together.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

utg is opening a ton of hands and button is prob isolating any ace given history, makes this a really easy shove imo.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

If your read is right, then ok, push. FF_Woodycooks said it best, mind the gap concept. UTG is short, but with what kind of cards could he really raise. Okay, you have a read on the villain with big stack, but what about the initial raiser? why is he cripled with just 900 left? did he play ok, and just got unlucky? did he minraise couse he wanted action?
Lots of questions beeing unaswered i fold this.

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you fold, the Wizard analyzes all possible actions of your opponents, including when they get all-in together.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing this up. This means SnGWiz should actually handle this situation quite accurately?

(I have another, related question i was wondering about: Does SNGWiz deal correctly with Sidepots/Splitpots in 3-way Pots? But i realize this is getting a bit off-topic [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Re: 60 overshove TT?
 

plexiq : it does