cash out curse on Stars
 

I am playing for 1 year now almost daily at Pokerstars and currently having a bad run.

Recently i send an email to Pokerstars about my bad run and told them i've had a feeling that after i win a tournament or after i cash out, i get either bad cards or when i get a hand like KK its always against AA. Or when i hit a set i get rivered by a flush/straight. And it always seems like i am loosing the coinflips when i'm ahead at important moments.

as a reply i get the following email:

The "cashout curse" is one of the oldest legends of online poker,
specifically players believing that you are "punished" for cashouts,
and tend to do worse after cashing out.

The myth of the cashout curse was discussed in Card Player magazine.
You can read the article at:

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/13994

Simply put, sheer math indicates that any time you lower your bankroll
in a game that has variance, you increase your chances of going broke.
Factor in the natural impulse to get worried when you run a bit short
on playing bankroll, and it all adds up to a situation where when you
leave yourself underfunded for your games, you may see your results
get worse.

If you have further questions about this, please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Regards,

Jacob
PokerStars Support Team



After reading the article on Cardplayer.com on the link the have send me i saw the name of the author: Lee H. Jones.

This guy is if im correct the manager of Pokerstars.

How can i ever believe an article wich convinced me about the "cash out curse" if the author is the guy who is ripping me off???

Please give your opinions on what you think about this.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

Lee Jones isn't the manager of poker stars anymore.

If the article brings up some good points about the cashout curse why does it matter who wrote it?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.
[...]
Ad hominem arguments are always invalid in syllogistic logic, since the truth value of premises is taken as given, and the validity of a logical inference is independent of the person making the inference."

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

While I dont believe in the cashout curse I do find it funny that they use that article as a reference.
That's like walking up to a 3 card monte game and asking the owner/operator if it's a legit game and he says of course it is, can't you read my cardboard sign "Not a Scam U dam Fool!!", thus convincing you to try your luck!

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

the variance part is absolute bull...i posted in a thread(still loosing on stars) a few hours ago that i noticed that pattern as well...everytime i cash out from ps or claim my cash rewards for my fpp i have 2-3 really bad days and unlimited bad beats...i usually leave in my account around 40 BI for my games hence i don't understand how variance could be possibly involved with this...i never went broke but under normal circumstances if i dont cash out or get money from ps in any way there is no chance i loose 10-12 BI per day for a few on the trot which is what happens when i do...i really hope this never happens to me again cause i will start believing its not a coincidence anymore....

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

fwiw
the cashout curse on FT is waaaaaaay worse than on Stars.
lol

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

There is a doomsday switch on stars, but if you had money to cash out, clearly you werent a victim of it!

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please give your opinions on what you think about this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are a [censored] idiot for believing that pokerstars sets their shuffle algorithm according to recent transactions on a users' account.

I think it is particularly inane to believe something when there is no evidence to support it.

While, of course, it is theoretically possible, no one, out of all the retarded muppets who come on here and complaining about stuff being rigged, have ever provided any evidence that it is rigged.



In addition, if you genuinely believe that PokerStars is rigged (and thus, perpetrating a massive international criminal fraud) it is your civic duty to report this to your local law enforcement office. You should do this.


edit: corrected a miswording in my opening paragraph

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
the variance part is absolute bull...i posted in a thread(still loosing on stars) a few hours ago that i noticed that pattern as well...everytime i cash out from ps or claim my cash rewards for my fpp i have 2-3 really bad days and unlimited bad beats...i usually leave in my account around 40 BI for my games hence i don't understand how variance could be possibly involved with this...i never went broke but under normal circumstances if i dont cash out or get money from ps in any way there is no chance i loose 10-12 BI per day for a few on the trot which is what happens when i do...i really hope this never happens to me again cause i will start believing its not a coincidence anymore....

[/ QUOTE ]

Please report your belief of an international criminal fraud operating at PokerStars to your local police force. This is a serious criminal allegation you are making.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

Look for higher limit tables with at least 2 players that have recently cashed out. Loosen up on your hand selection and see the river every hand. You can't lose.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw
the cashout curse on FT is waaaaaaay worse than on Stars.
lol

[/ QUOTE ]
No doubt, stars is just straight up rigged all the time, at FT you have to cash out before being doomswitched.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look for higher limit tables with at least 2 players that have recently cashed out. Loosen up on your hand selection and see the river every hand. You can't lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

alternatively, you could find OnlinePro on there, play him headsup, and since both of your accounts are rigged to never win, you'll have a series of split pots, costing you nothing to overcome your curse.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

I've made one deposit lifetime at FTP, for $1,000. I made my first withdraws early last month (July), three checks of $5,000 each for a total of $15,000.

I made it all back later on in the month. Cash out curse/riggedness is [censored].

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

I cashed out last month and immediately my dog was run over by a car, I lost my job, my girlfriend cheated on me, and my Dad got cancer. Fuggin' Stars.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

so, if i'm sitting at a full table of 9 players, and 5 of us have cashed out recently.

3 people to the flop, all 3 of these people have cashed out within the last 3 days.

Who gets cursed?

the person who cashed out the most recent?
the person who cashed out the most $$$$$?
person who has chased out the most consistantly?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

Everyone folds and the dealer picks up the pot because PS said so.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please give your opinions on what you think about this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are a [censored] idiot for believing that pokerstars sets their shuffle algorithm according to recent transactions on a users' account.

I think it is particularly inane to believe something when there is no evidence to support it.

While, of course, it is theoretically possible, no one, out of all the retarded muppets who come on here and complaining about stuff being rigged, have ever provided any evidence that it is rigged.



In addition, if you genuinely believe that PokerStars is rigged (and thus, perpetrating a massive international criminal fraud) it is your civic duty to report this to your local law enforcement office. You should do this.


edit: corrected a miswording in my opening paragraph

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey [censored], you have to work for an online site to sit here 24/7 sticking up for them

Hey douche tard, show us evidence its not rigged retard.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey [censored], you have to work for an online site to sit here 24/7 sticking up for them

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't. This is another lie from a lying liar who lies.

[ QUOTE ]
Hey douche tard, show us evidence its not rigged retard.

[/ QUOTE ]
The stats from one of the recent versions of these threads are all pretty standard; we also have the claims from PokerStars themselves and their auditors that it is ok.


Thus, we have some evidence it is not rigged; there is literally zero evidence that it is rigged

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey [censored], you have to work for an online site to sit here 24/7 sticking up for them

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't. This is another lie from a lying liar who lies.

[ QUOTE ]
Hey douche tard, show us evidence its not rigged retard.

[/ QUOTE ]
The stats from one of the recent versions of these threads are all pretty standard; we also have the claims from PokerStars themselves and their auditors that it is ok.


Thus, we have some evidence it is not rigged; there is literally zero evidence that it is rigged

[/ QUOTE ]


Whatever douche tard. Show us proof it's not rigged or shut ur piehole.

I want test results on the rng, since ur so righteous in your claim, show it up big guy.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

We have 0 evidence it's not rigged.

It just happens to be a thread every other day about a downswing after a cashout but no one can explain why other then the same old bull [censored]....?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

The stats from one of the recent versions of these threads are all pretty standard; we also have the claims from PokerStars themselves and their auditors that it is ok.


And we should just take their word for it? lolz

Lets see the proof from a third party.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever douche tard. Show us proof it's not rigged or shut ur piehole.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. I'm not starting threads claiming that pokerstars is legit. Muppets like you are starting threads claiming that pokerstars is rigged - so, just once, the readers on this forum deserve some (!) evidence to support such an offensive allegation.

Traditionally, when people accuse others of international criminal frauds, they provide some evidence of this - it is not incumbent on anyone to continually prove that they are not fraudsters, but rather, is incumbent on the accusers.

That's a pretty basic tenet of logic and western culture.

[ QUOTE ]
I want test results on the rng, since ur so righteous in your claim, show it up big guy.

[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly does this mean? I obviously don't have access to the pokerstars RNG, since I don't work, have never worked, and don't intend to work, for pokerstars.

My claim is pretty simple: if people are going to start threads on here claiming that online poker is rigged, they should provide some evidence to support this idea.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

FYI realjaydub, there's an Edit button if you want to add additional content to your posts.

Also, I seem to have my cashout curse reversed, I suppose. In my smallish sample size (but LOL sample sizes don't mean anything, right? It's "0 evidence") I generally do better after withdrawing, but when I have just deposited I don't do that well.

I haven't deposited anywhere since the UIGEA though, only withdrawn.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

My claim is pretty simple, if retards are going to claim it's not rigged beyond a shadow of a doubt I would expect them to show us proof.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
The stats from one of the recent versions of these threads are all pretty standard; we also have the claims from PokerStars themselves and their auditors that it is ok.


And we should just take their word for it? lolz

Lets see the proof from a third party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, unless there is some reason to doubt PokerStars, yes, we should just take their word for it. Why is that unreasonable?

If someone told me something that was:
a) plausible; and
b) the person was reputable; and
c) the person had no history of lying; and
d) there was no reason to doubt it;

then I would go about my life and assume it is true. Of course, there's a risk that they were telling me a lie, but that's one that any reasonable person is willing to take.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

The problem with all these rigging "theories" is that it would be trivial to prove that it is happening. Simply compare the X # of hands of a player after they cash out with all other hands. If there is a curse, there should be an anomaly in the data. Any rigging apparent to a player would stick out like a sore thumb to decent statistical analysis.

If the anomaly is too small to detect due to rigging only running some of the time, then it would the pointless to have a "doom switch" with statistically insignificant results on the cards.

For example, any algorithm that increases the chances of an event occurring by even 1% will be detectable with enough data. And even if there is one that is undetectable, the result on a poker site's bottom line is so small to take the risk.

So, in conclusion:

A) If rigging exists, then it's too small to detect.
B) If it's too small to detect, then it's insignificant to a poker site's bottom line.
C) If there's no significant benefit to rigging, then there's no point in doing so, since any proof of such will cause a lot more damage to the company than any potential profits.

Regarding losing after cashing out:

I also tend to lose money after cashing out. I figure it's because I cash out after I run good for a while. When I start running good, I start picking up bad habits, which cause me to lose money after I cash out.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
FYI realjaydub, there's an Edit button if you want to add additional content to your posts.

[/qoute]

Right on. I hate to use it because people tend to believe you changed ur post all together. *meh*

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
My claim is pretty simple, if retards are going to claim it's not rigged beyond a shadow of a doubt I would expect them to show us proof.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is claiming that it is not rigged beyond a shadow of a doubt.

No one has claimed that it is impossible for stars to be rigged.

In fact, in my first post in this thread, I said that "of course, it is theoretically possible" that Stars is rigged. However, there is no evidence to support believing that stars is rigged; therefore, I do not believe stars is rigged.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

Actually now that I really think about it, I don't think I've ever experienced an immediate downswing after withdrawing. BTW I've played (and deposited/withdrawn) on all of these sites/networks: PokerStars, FTP, Prima, Cryptologic, iPoker, and Mansion.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

****
Well, unless there is some reason to doubt PokerStars, yes, we should just take their word for it. Why is that unreasonable? josem*****


When China sells the US dog food and claims it's dog food, whould we just believe them or should we have it tested especially if there is doubt it IS dog food? Let's not be a total douche tard, show us proof, it shouldn't be that hard.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the anomaly is too small to detect due to rigging only running some of the time, then it would the pointless to have a "doom switch" with statistically insignificant results on the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

In addition, any rigging that was done like this would also not be detectable by humans playing the game.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with all these rigging "theories" is that it would be trivial to prove that it is happening. Simply compare the X # of hands of a player after they cash out with all other hands. If there is a curse, there should be an anomaly in the data. Any rigging apparent to a player would stick out like a sore thumb to decent statistical analysis.

If the anomaly is too small to detect due to rigging only running some of the time, then it would the pointless to have a "doom switch" with statistically insignificant results on the cards.

For example, any algorithm that increases the chances of an event occurring by even 1% will be detectable with enough data. And even if there is one that is undetectable, the result on a poker site's bottom line is so small to take the risk.

So, in conclusion:

A) If rigging exists, then it's too small to detect.
B) If it's too small to detect, then it's insignificant to a poker site's bottom line.
C) If there's no significant benefit to rigging, then there's no point in doing so, since any proof of such will cause a lot more damage to the company than any potential profits.

Regarding losing after cashing out:

I also tend to lose money after cashing out. I figure it's because I cash out after I run good for a while. When I start running good, I start picking up bad habits, which cause me to lose money after I cash out.

[/ QUOTE ]


The brainwashing is working, good for josem.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the anomaly is too small to detect due to rigging only running some of the time, then it would the pointless to have a "doom switch" with statistically insignificant results on the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

In addition, any rigging that was done like this would also not be detectable by humans playing the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're joking right?


SNG's are the easiest way to see riggedness.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

Logical arguments = brainwashing?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Logical arguments = brainwashing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Logical?

You're trying to sell yourself the same line that's been said by online nutthuggers.

I know you didn't come up with that on your own.

Do you really believe once you hit your cash out button you all of the sudden start playing like crap?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're joking right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Are you seriously doubting that is impossible for a human brain in real time to provide better statistical analysis over hundreds of thousands of instances than a PC? Like, honestly...

[ QUOTE ]
SNG's are the easiest way to see riggedness.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and how is that?

As you'll recall from our last thread (where you ignored what I wrote and made a serious of quite offensive implications about criminal threads - much like this one) I've played thousands of SNGs. I've never seen any proof that SNGs are rigged in that.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Logical arguments = brainwashing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Logical?

You're trying to sell yourself the same line that's been said by online nutthuggers.

I know you didn't come up with that on your own.

Do you really believe once you hit your cash out button you all of the sudden start playing like crap?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um... firstly, I'm not "selling" myself anything. I'm very confident there's no [censored] rigging. Secondly, as I said in my other posts, I've never had a downswing right after withdrawing, and I've played on multiple sites.

EDIT: I suppose I'm simply immune to the curse, right? Or I'm all the sites' lucky 500,000th player so I don't have a DOOMED account?

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're joking right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Are you seriously doubting that is impossible for a human brain in real time to provide better statistical analysis over hundreds of thousands of instances than a PC? Like, honestly...

[ QUOTE ]
SNG's are the easiest way to see riggedness.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and how is that?

As you'll recall from our last thread (where you ignored what I wrote and made a serious of quite offensive implications about criminal threads - much like this one) I've played thousands of SNGs. I've never seen any proof that SNGs are rigged in that.

[/ QUOTE ]


Then you clearly were not paying attention.

I've played thousands and thousands of sngs and the riggedness would often help myself. I was in the mode, if it isn't me....then I'm not going to worry about it.


The chip leader 9/10 times would suckout so bad for runner runner it was literally hilarious.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
When China sells the US dog food and claims it's dog food, whould we just believe them or should we have it tested especially if there is doubt it IS dog food?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, sure, if you want to doubt it, you should feel free to test it. Doesn't bother me - but don't claim that it is not dog food until you bring some proof with you.

Re: cash out curse on Stars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Logical arguments = brainwashing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Logical?

You're trying to sell yourself the same line that's been said by online nutthuggers.

I know you didn't come up with that on your own.

Do you really believe once you hit your cash out button you all of the sudden start playing like crap?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um... firstly, I'm not "selling" myself anything. I'm very confident there's no [censored] rigging. Secondly, as I said in my other posts, I've never had a downswing right after withdrawing, and I've played on multiple sites.

EDIT: I suppose I'm simply immune to the curse, right? Or I'm all the sites' lucky 500,000th player so I don't have a DOOMED account?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ur not? Did I pick up the wrong qoute?

"I also tend to lose money after cashing out. I figure it's because I cash out after I run good for a while. When I start running good, I start picking up bad habits, which cause me to lose money after I cash out. "