Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

I do not pay income tax. Then again I don't have to because I'm not an American resident!

However, I would not pay the income tax even if I were one. I am on similar grounds to the much loved by 2+2'ers Chomsky regarding this issue:

[ QUOTE ]
My own feeling is that one should refuse to participate in any activity that implements American aggression -- thus tax refusal, draft refusal, avoidance of work that can be used by the agencies of militarism and repression, all seem to me essential.

But I think that tax refusal is an important gesture, both because it symbolizes a refusal to make a voluntary contribution to the war machine and also because it indicates a willingness, which should, I think, be indicated, to take illegal measures to oppose an indecent government.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologise if there has been any threads such as this on income tax, but, I will extend the debate to ANY form of taxation.

In Britain it is even more lonely being opposed to tax that despite being "proportionate" provides (imo) an inadequate redistribution of wealth wherein the rich and elite still remain the power holders and beneficiaries of the state, society and capitalism with or without state protection/welfare intervention for the poor; this merely creates a vicious 'regulated' circle(this does not, however, make me more inclined to support "state capitalism to benefit the whole people" Leninist-Marxist contradictory rubbish or any form of state delivered socialism, which I also find oppressive). Not suprisingly I take the line that any form of governemt control, manipulation, and totalitarianism over the people (which taxation is a form thereof) achieves the inevitability of state preservation: the perpetration of aggression and oppression in the absence of real compassion and equallity. In other words I do not believe any government with whatever form of implemented taxation is fair or just and that it is always in the interest of the state to prevent fair redistribution of wealth amongst citizens who expect, from government forced taxation, to recieve an appropriate return in services and protection: which will never happen as it is not in the interest or capability of governments to do so.

So: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not? And do you extend your dislike of a direct unequally/non redistributed tax to ALL forms of taxation -whether it be conservative small government low tax or contrastly socialist proportionate high taxation.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

You should also "refuse to participate" in getting mugged.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Err, don't you go to jail for not paying income tax?

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not pay income tax. Then again I don't have to because I'm not an American resident!

However, I would not pay the income tax even if I were one. I am on similar grounds to the much loved by 2+2'ers Chomsky regarding this issue:

[ QUOTE ]
My own feeling is that one should refuse to participate in any activity that implements American aggression -- thus tax refusal, draft refusal, avoidance of work that can be used by the agencies of militarism and repression, all seem to me essential.

But I think that tax refusal is an important gesture, both because it symbolizes a refusal to make a voluntary contribution to the war machine and also because it indicates a willingness, which should, I think, be indicated, to take illegal measures to oppose an indecent government.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologise if there has been any threads such as this on income tax, but, I will extend the debate to ANY form of taxation.

In Britain it is even more lonely being opposed to tax that despite being "proportionate" provides (imo) an inadequate redistribution of wealth wherein the rich and elite still remain the power holders and beneficiaries of the state, society and capitalism with or without state protection/welfare intervention for the poor; this merely creates a vicious 'regulated' circle(this does not, however, make me more inclined to support "state capitalism to benefit the whole people" Leninist-Marxist contradictory rubbish or any form of state delivered socialism, which I also find oppressive). Not suprisingly I take the line that any form of governemt control, manipulation, and totalitarianism over the people (which taxation is a form thereof) achieves the inevitability of state preservation: the perpetration of aggression and oppression in the absence of real compassion and equallity. In other words I do not believe any government with whatever form of implemented taxation is fair or just and that it is always in the interest of the state to prevent fair redistribution of wealth amongst citizens who expect, from government forced taxation, to recieve an appropriate return in services and protection: which will never happen as it is not in the interest or capability of governments to do so.

So: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not? And do you extend your dislike of a direct unequally/non redistributed tax to ALL forms of taxation -whether it be conservative small government low tax or contrastly socialist proportionate high taxation.

[/ QUOTE ]

and much hated by other 2+2ers. Chomsky pays his income taxes. Bad example.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

I don't file income tax (did one year)... ironically, I'd actually get money if I did; but I fully intend not to file when I am making money too.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do not pay income tax. Then again I don't have to because I'm not an American resident!

However, I would not pay the income tax even if I were one. I am on similar grounds to the much loved by 2+2'ers Chomsky regarding this issue:

[ QUOTE ]
My own feeling is that one should refuse to participate in any activity that implements American aggression -- thus tax refusal, draft refusal, avoidance of work that can be used by the agencies of militarism and repression, all seem to me essential.

But I think that tax refusal is an important gesture, both because it symbolizes a refusal to make a voluntary contribution to the war machine and also because it indicates a willingness, which should, I think, be indicated, to take illegal measures to oppose an indecent government.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologise if there has been any threads such as this on income tax, but, I will extend the debate to ANY form of taxation.

In Britain it is even more lonely being opposed to tax that despite being "proportionate" provides (imo) an inadequate redistribution of wealth wherein the rich and elite still remain the power holders and beneficiaries of the state, society and capitalism with or without state protection/welfare intervention for the poor; this merely creates a vicious 'regulated' circle(this does not, however, make me more inclined to support "state capitalism to benefit the whole people" Leninist-Marxist contradictory rubbish or any form of state delivered socialism, which I also find oppressive). Not suprisingly I take the line that any form of governemt control, manipulation, and totalitarianism over the people (which taxation is a form thereof) achieves the inevitability of state preservation: the perpetration of aggression and oppression in the absence of real compassion and equallity. In other words I do not believe any government with whatever form of implemented taxation is fair or just and that it is always in the interest of the state to prevent fair redistribution of wealth amongst citizens who expect, from government forced taxation, to recieve an appropriate return in services and protection: which will never happen as it is not in the interest or capability of governments to do so.

So: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not? And do you extend your dislike of a direct unequally/non redistributed tax to ALL forms of taxation -whether it be conservative small government low tax or contrastly socialist proportionate high taxation.

[/ QUOTE ]

and much hated by other 2+2ers. Chomsky pays his income taxes. Bad example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't call it a bad example. He doesn't really have the option since he's too high profile.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

nope. revenues from poker not taxed here. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]

and much hated by other 2+2ers. Chomsky pays his income taxes. Bad example.


[/ QUOTE ]

His paychecks from M.I.T. have the taxes taken out already. His revenue from his books goes to either his wife or his kids. I forgot which. Bad example, indeed.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

"His paychecks from M.I.T. have the taxes taken out already. His revenue from his books goes to either his wife or his kids. I forgot which. Bad example, indeed. "

He's a multimillionaire.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Chomsky in the article I quoted from said he had not paid income tax for the previous 2 years. Regardless of whether if he does or not the reasons he gives for not paying are similar to beliefs I have regarding the matter.

I was interested in hearing other peoples opinion but whatever.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Yes - happily.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes - happily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you like to pay mine?

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Err, don't you go to jail for not paying income tax?

[/ QUOTE ]

If and when they catch you, it really depends on how much you owe and whether or not you make adequate arrangements to pay.

Usually there not even the threat of jail.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your argument is regarding ANY forms of taxation. The income tax does not pay towards ANY public services other than literally the "war machine" and the federal reserve. Im not an expert on the federal reserve stuff but I've read many sources that state it is a common misconception that income tax goes towards public services such as roads and schools.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the income tax doesn't pay for these things... at least not all of them.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the income tax doesn't pay for these things... at least not all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it doesnt pay for ANY public sevices other than defense (aggression). AMIRITE?

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

"I read it doesnt pay for ANY public sevices other than defense (aggression). AMIRITE? "

I like to think it pays for corporate welfare too, but that's probably wishful thinking on my part (to justify not paying it) :P

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the income tax doesn't pay for these things... at least not all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it doesnt pay for ANY public sevices other than defense (aggression). AMIRITE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close. About 22% does, though.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

If your going to be unjustly taxed would you not rather it go to welfare programs than internation bankers/federal reserve and the "war machine"?

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the income tax doesn't pay for these things... at least not all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it doesnt pay for ANY public sevices other than defense (aggression). AMIRITE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close. About 22% does, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would have to read up on it. I've only seen "bias" sources thus far regarding the income tax.

Regardless, I extend the argument against the income tax to all taxation: Taxation whether proportionate, socialist, or conservative low tax is unjust and an attack on our liberty.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the income tax doesn't pay for these things... at least not all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it doesnt pay for ANY public sevices other than defense (aggression). AMIRITE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close. About 22% does, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would have to read up on it. I've only seen "bias" sources thus far regarding the income tax.

[/ QUOTE ]

2007 Federal Outlays:

* $699 billion - Defense
* $586.1 billion - Social Security
* $394.5 billion - Medicare
* $367.0 billion - Unemployment and welfare
* $276.4 billion - Medicaid and other health related
* $243.7 billion - Interest on debt
* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation
* $72.6 billion - Veterans' benefits
* $43.5 billion - Administration of justice
* $33.1 billion - Natural resources and environment
* $32.5 billion - Foreign affairs
* $27.0 billion - Agriculture
* $26.8 billion - Community and regional development
* $25.0 billion - Science and technology
* $20.1 billion - General government
* $1.1 billion - Energy


So yeah, national defense is a big federal expenditure, but certainly not the only one.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...8/pdf/hist.pdf

An easy but crude way to think of the federal budget:

50% SS/Medicare/Medicaid
25% defense
10% interest on debt
15% everything else

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Historical Federal Budget Data

You can get a fairly good idea where federal revenues come from and where federal outlays go from the above linky. Tack on state and local government expenditures to get an even better understanding. I believe all but 4 states have a state income tax. Not sure how many cities have a local income tax in the USA but many do.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

"I believe all but 4 states have a state income tax."

Ahh New Hampshire, how we love you.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

$699 billion on aggression. That's sick! Still, I guess if the stats above is true I've been somewhat misled.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Actually it's seven with New Hampshire and Tennessee only taxing dividend and interest income.

No State Income Tax States

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
$699 billion on aggression. That's sick! Still, I guess if the stats above is true I've been somewhat misled.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take out the money spent on "aggression" and how much should/would defense outlays be?

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

zasterguava ,

It is meaningless to say you would not follow laws you are not subject to. You won't make a real risk/reward evaluation until you have to.

Yes I pay income tax. I have no interest in going to jail.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
zasterguava ,

It is meaningless to say you would not follow laws you are not subject to. You won't make a real risk/reward evaluation until you have to.

Yes I pay income tax. I have no interest in going to jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing I find irratating about OP is that OP is implying that more tax money should go to redistribute income. It takes a lot of nerve/stupidity (take your pick) to crow about not paying income taxes, then have no idea about the allocation of revenues are collected, then have no clue about how government spends its money (for example how defense expenditures are allocated), and say more or less that government should be redistributing more income to the less afluent.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of those are paid for by federal income taxes, so GG.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
zasterguava ,

It is meaningless to say you would not follow laws you are not subject to. You won't make a real risk/reward evaluation until you have to.

Yes I pay income tax. I have no interest in going to jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing I find irratating about OP is that OP is implying that more tax money should go to redistribute income. It takes a lot of nerve/stupidity (take your pick) to crow about not paying income taxes, then have no idea about the allocation of revenues are collected, then have no clue about how government spends its money (for example how defense expenditures are allocated), and say more or less that government should be redistributing more income to the less afluent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth which are exactly what I DIDNT SAY!

"government should be redistributing more income to the less afluent"

Thats what would happen under state socialism. If you read my post I said I do not think this is sufficient or a move in the direction of liberty, freedom and equality.

I said quite explicitly that ALL forms of government and ALL forms of taxation can not provide a society where there is equality,(I included a critique of Marxist-Leninism) or a fair redistribution of wealth. Capitalism, whether state intervened or left to free market and trade, is IMO a recipe (and requirement) for inequality, exploitation and enslavery.

Also, try to refrain from saying things are idiotic when you havn't read properly or made an effort to understand where Im coming from, as, quite clearly you have made a gross interpretation of what I said.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of those are paid for by federal income taxes, so GG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another poster quoted the following regarding the use of income tax:

* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation

Is this wrong? I'm sort of sitting on the fence here as I'm hearing from perhaps both sides of the extreme views.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of those are paid for by federal income taxes, so GG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another poster quoted the following regarding the use of income tax:

* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation

Is this wrong? I'm sort of sitting on the fence here as I'm hearing from perhaps both sides of the extreme views.

[/ QUOTE ]

Education is things like testing programs and scholarships. As far as I know this money doest not go to schools directly. It's unconstitutionaly regardless, so it doesn't really matter anyway as it can be ignored.

The transportation money isn't really even transportation money, it's money the feds use to bribe the states to make laws (like 21 drinking age) that the Supreme Court won't let the feds make. It's like calling lottery money money for education. Sure the funds are allocated to that, but the money that would have been allocated there without those funds just got allocated somewhere else.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
zasterguava ,

It is meaningless to say you would not follow laws you are not subject to. You won't make a real risk/reward evaluation until you have to.

Yes I pay income tax. I have no interest in going to jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing I find irratating about OP is that OP is implying that more tax money should go to redistribute income. It takes a lot of nerve/stupidity (take your pick) to crow about not paying income taxes, then have no idea about the allocation of revenues are collected, then have no clue about how government spends its money (for example how defense expenditures are allocated), and say more or less that government should be redistributing more income to the less afluent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth which are exactly what I DIDNT SAY!

"government should be redistributing more income to the less afluent"

Thats what would happen under state socialism. If you read my post I said I do not think this is sufficient or a move in the direction of liberty, freedom and equality.

I said quite explicitly that ALL forms of government and ALL forms of taxation can not provide a society where there is equality,(I included a critique of Marxist-Leninism) or a fair redistribution of wealth. Capitalism, whether state intervened or left to free market and trade, is IMO a recipe (and requirement) for inequality, exploitation and enslavery.

Also, try to refrain from saying things are idiotic when you havn't read properly or made an effort to understand where Im coming from, as, quite clearly you have made a gross interpretation of what I said.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I read it properly. You have no clue on how the distribution of government revenue is collected or spent and that government spending to redistribute income is preferable to spending money on "aggression" all the while you don't pay any income tax.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of those are paid for by federal income taxes, so GG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another poster quoted the following regarding the use of income tax:

* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation

Is this wrong? I'm sort of sitting on the fence here as I'm hearing from perhaps both sides of the extreme views.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you quit being so lazy and research it for yourself. The information you seek is readily available.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

"No I read it properly. You have no clue on how the distribution of government revenue is collected or spent and that government spending to redistribute income is preferable to spending money on "aggression" all the while you don't pay any income tax. "

No again, if you read what I said you would understand I am against all forms of government and thus against the government taking money off its citizens HOWEVER it spends it. Thus your arguments are bizzare. If im against the inate implications of a certain system why should I care about the intricacies of it? Again, it boils down to an argument against capitalism and the state, but lets not get onto that. A socialist government will " collected or spend" taxes differently with emphasis on helping the poor- I STILL think this is wrong.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its all well and good that people are so morally perfect that they would not pay taxes to avoid paying for the "war machine".

I would simply kindly ask them to stay the [censored] off my roads and keep their kids out of my public schools. Don't expect the police or fire department to help you out either. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of those are paid for by federal income taxes, so GG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another poster quoted the following regarding the use of income tax:

* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation

Is this wrong? I'm sort of sitting on the fence here as I'm hearing from perhaps both sides of the extreme views.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you quit being so lazy and research it for yourself. The information you seek is readily available.

[/ QUOTE ]

The information the government supplied regarding the Gulf of Tonkin was readily avaialable. The "real" truth which was much harder to learn at the time was not. But yes obviously the news and government activity is very easily accessable in America; in fact it is available 24/7 on Fox News, I forgot. How ignorant I am.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

I also happily pay my income tax. After all it's an excellent bargain.

Every year I am faced with the choice of either paying off the government with some of my earnings or getting locked up in jail. Jail sucks, and it would really hinder my opportunity to earn, so I gladly pay my income tax.

I consider income tax a bargain, considering I'd probably be willing to give everything I own to stay out of jail, and the government is only asking for 40% of one year's earnings! What a bargain.

natedogg

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I consider income tax a bargain, considering I'd probably be willing to give everything I own to stay out of jail, and the government is only asking for 40% of one year's earnings! What a bargain.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do not pay 40% of your income in taxes. You benefit from the taxes you do pay and not just by staying out of jail.

Re: Do you pay your income tax. If not; why not?
 

Obviously if zaster lived over here, he would be paying taxes. This whole thread is silly. Messing with the feds is not a smart choice.