Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

20 minutes in, and I don't know anything about villain. I doubled up early with a flopped set to top pair.

Is this turn bet standard, and if so how do we act to any resistance be it a check minraise or a committal raise like villains.




Table '58622867 3' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: waynecoal (2760 in chips)
Seat 2: bjorns (4540 in chips)
Seat 3: goldi100 (1880 in chips)
Seat 4: RRRULA (3950 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Georgy177 (2820 in chips)
Seat 7: Einoeloclee (1640 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO (5590 in chips)
Seat 9: xenon75a (3820 in chips)
RRRULA: posts small blind 15
Georgy177: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ac Kd]
Einoeloclee: calls 30
HERO: raises 105 to 135
xenon75a: folds
waynecoal: folds
bjorns: folds
goldi100: folds
RRRULA: folds
Georgy177: calls 105
Einoeloclee: calls 105
*** FLOP *** [8c 9h 5c]
Ecky_Z is connected
Georgy177: checks
Einoeloclee: checks
HERO: checks
*** TURN *** [8c 9h 5c] [Ks]
Georgy177: checks
Einoeloclee: checks
HERO: bets 240
Georgy177: raises 840 to 1080

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

I would bet turn also but maybe a little more. on turn i cant see doing anything besides shoving but maybe that's bad

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

shove and pray.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

as played I guess we have to be scared of 2 pair, MAYBE a set? you are only risking about half your stack with what I think is good more than 50% of the time...but I still cant come up with a hand for the villan to just call out of the bb but has us beat...88,99, 89? 10 J could be likely and is hoping you fold but if not they have outs...you have not shown a lot of stregnth this hand...BUT have shown AK to be pretty likely...

cliff notes...I reluctantly call or shove...

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

for those in the shove and pray camp what hand range do you put villain on?

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree!

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

edit: i thought u had nut flush draw for some reason....hmm it gets closer then, not sure what i do..

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was trying to say...but somehow that led me to still call...is that crazy (stupid?)...I also look at the result IF I lose I still have my starting stack at 15-30...is this also a bad way to look at things...???

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

does anyone here not bet this turn? I also think my bet size should have been more in the 280-340 range.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone here not bet this turn? I also think my bet size should have been more in the 280-340 range.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone bets this turn...no one has shown even a little stregnth and you have TPTK...its after the reraise that is the question...

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

Shaun,

What made hand checks this flop? Did he turn 2 pair/would he check it? Would 6c7c take this line? Kxcc?

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was trying to say...but somehow that led me to still call...is that crazy (stupid?)...I also look at the result IF I lose I still have my starting stack at 15-30...is this also a bad way to look at things...???

[/ QUOTE ]

very bad to make -ev moves cuz if the few times you are right and you have best hand that you are happy. Getting an early double is way more valuable then most people realize. Giving that right back is much more painful then most people realize.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

People are rarely bluffing/semibluffing when they c/r there. It's almost always a made hand, and it's usually better than AK. Fold.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree!

[/ QUOTE ]
me too, although i'm curious as to what kind of hand villain has to make such an over-raise.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he puts you on AK due to PF and flop line, he is raising the turn thus can beat AK.

Since you have AK you can FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was trying to say...but somehow that led me to still call...is that crazy (stupid?)...I also look at the result IF I lose I still have my starting stack at 15-30...is this also a bad way to look at things...???

[/ QUOTE ]

very bad to make -ev moves cuz if the few times you are right and you have best hand that you are happy. Getting an early double is way more valuable then most people realize. Giving that right back is much more painful then most people realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is one of the biggest leaks I have, I guess...curiousity...

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

Shaun, I 100% agree and I think villains range has us killed. That said for those who call here or shove, (maybe no one does) what does villain show up with?

also, if villain check raises from 240 to 620 is it as much of an instamuck?

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

I think it is 40% of the time a bluff or 2 clubs...60% a set or straight...MAYBE 2 pair (89) but less likely for some reason.

The smaller bet to me would look stronger, but we either think we are ahead or behind, so call, shove, fold is still the same decision.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

nath I think he's just setting up a good river shove amount for value.

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

I would fold. Unless villian is an idiot it should be transparent that you have AK with your flop check. I doubt very much villian has KQ, KJ, etc. The only logical hand that he may have that you beat is KcXc, otherwise he has two pair, a set, or a flopped straight.

With the turn bet size it appears that he will move all in
on the river.

Bruce

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

Its a multiway pot, its unlikely hes bluffing, just fold

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
nath I think he's just setting up a good river shove amount for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

With what? asks the pariah...

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

Bump...cause i want to hear some ranges

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

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Bump...cause i want to hear some ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

"hands that beat what he puts us on, which is what we have"

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Bump...cause i want to hear some ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

"hands that beat what he puts us on, which is what we have"

[/ QUOTE ]

Was villain going for the c/r twice on a drawy board?

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bump...cause i want to hear some ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

"hands that beat what he puts us on, which is what we have"

[/ QUOTE ]

Was villain going for the c/r twice on a drawy board?

[/ QUOTE ]
look, just because donk's lines don't make any sense to you doesn't mean that isn't how they play

a lot of you need to learn this

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bump...cause i want to hear some ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

"hands that beat what he puts us on, which is what we have"

[/ QUOTE ]

Was villain going for the c/r twice on a drawy board?

[/ QUOTE ]
look, just because donk's lines don't make any sense to you doesn't mean that isn't how they play

a lot of you need to learn this

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

Please go preach this in SSMTT

Re: Stars 109 FO, Level 2 Weird Spot
 

Does anyone C-bet flop like 200? I usually would. I think this would help in playing turn too.