Whiff flop, bang turn
 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (5.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls.

River: (9.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero???

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

reads?

I like a c/c here slightly more than a b/f, and that only slightly more than a c/f. I don't know how often he'll call down with an AJ type hand, and I can't see him playing 66-99 this way, so either you're turning your hand into a bluff, or should give him a chance to bluff.

Depending on player c/f may be correct.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

wow man.and it`s me playing out of order,i don`t like this play.expensive and probably not profitable

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

I'm not sure what's going on here. I can understand going for the risky flop c/r since it's a pretty good flop for AK-AJ to c-bet but it's really hard to see anyone who doesn't to bet the turn. As played c/c is your worst river option imo.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

Any particular reason you decided not to donk the flop 5-ways?

It's certainly possible BU is taking a shot at the turn with AK/AJ, but I don't know how likely it is. Raising wouldn't have occurred to me, frankly. But ok. We're on the river and up against either a Q or A-high probably. 66-99 find a fold on the turn I'd think. So, does Villain bluff when checked to ever? I don't think so. Does A-high call ever? I'm not sure. If we're showing down we probably need to bet/fold. But I'm thinking it may be better to c/f since he probably doesn't bluff much.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

I kind of like a turn c/c, I dont think you need to be too worried about protecting your hand here....

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

Well he can't have a PP here. So either the Q hit him or it didn't. Unless you have a read your one bet is best when made not called. If I don't know my opponent I don't like to C/F in a 10BB pot in this spot.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

Another point to consider here is that even when we bet/lose it's not like it's a complete loss. We purchased the right to value bet many more future rivers. add that to the equation and I like bet/fold even more.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

Dont drink and play poker Sharpie. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I usually donk the flop 4 ways here.

Turn c/r is beyond me. After the flop checks through I would have bet it. Since you checked I think a c/c is better than c/r. Protecting you hand in smallish pot is not worth it IMO.

River is close. He has Qx or KJ. If you think he is dumb enough to bluff his KJ you can c/c. Otherwise its prolly a c/f.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont drink and play poker Sharpie. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I usually donk the flop 4 ways here.

Turn c/r is beyond me. After the flop checks through I would have bet it. Since you checked I think a c/c is better than c/r. Protecting you hand in smallish pot is not worth it IMO.

River is close. He has Qx or KJ. If you think he is dumb enough to bluff his KJ you can c/c. Otherwise its prolly a c/f.

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Haha, unfortunately I was sober. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Flop I thought was a standard c/r, I think protecting my hand is worth more than the chance it gets checked through?

On the turn I didn't think my equity was great on that card, and I'm thinking it won't get checked through much, and I can see the action and decide. FWIW I ran a rough stove and I was like under 20% once the turn card hits before any betting. The turn check/raise I have no idea, was a fly by the seat of my pants play.

FWIW I checked the river not knowing wtf to do if he bets, and he checked through KQ.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop I thought was a standard c/r, I think protecting my hand is worth more than the chance it gets checked through?


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Good point and since pot is big its nice to get rid of hands with just one overcard.

The thing is tho, when button bets you might not have anything to protect. A lot of players will check whiffed overcards on that flop 4-ways.

Dunno I guess you should expect people to c-bet with oc's on that particular flop. I know I would.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

this hand sucks. i don't really want to c/r vs. button's flop betting range, and i don't really want to bet vs. a ton of limpers + his preflop range. ideally i want to check and have it bet and raised so i can fold.

anyway, you got another decent result - it checked through so now you know your hand was probably good on the flop. the problem is, that turn card probably just killed your hand. i would now check again hoping that one of the limpers would bet so i can fold. but now that doesn't happen and the pfr bets. here i don't see why you raised because i don't see him 2-barreling AJ/AK/KJs, and i again don't like my hand very much. it's call or fold. vs. me it's a fold because i think he shouldn't be betting many worse hands. i think it's a fold vs. most. you're going to see what you saw a big % of the time, QJs, KQ, or AQ. as played, yeah i would c/f river.

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

wierd hand
I've been trying to find more places to donk flops multiway, and I think this is one. with this many people in the pot I think that button is going to be taking a free card a lot of the time with his overcard hands

I think check and assess is the right play on the turn. as it came down the raise seems bad because that Q hits a lot of the hands that the pfr checked behind and noone else seems interested in the pot

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop I thought was a standard c/r, I think protecting my hand is worth more than the chance it gets checked through?


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Good point and since pot is big its nice to get rid of hands with just one overcard.

The thing is tho, when button bets you might not have anything to protect. A lot of players will check whiffed overcards on that flop 4-ways.

Dunno I guess you should expect people to c-bet with oc's on that particular flop. I know I would.

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I don't think I agree with this. Betting out puts a lot of pressure on MP's with PFR on the button and you can represent a 5 more credibly than with a c/r. I guess this depends on how the table is playing (do they ever fold flops, how agressive is Button). If Button is agressive i prefer betting, then 3 bet when there are (loose)callers or just call when I get hu (possibly folding on later streets depending on board and opposition).

Re: Whiff flop, bang turn
 

I always donk TP in 4+-way hands. c/r turn is bad. check/fold turn.