KQo UTG...
 

Offsuit broadway is killing me. I get it alot UTG and in MP and i am clueless on how to play it.

for example, the table average vp is 27.4 and the villians are 31,30,31 and 17. I have been throwing these away. Is this woefully stupid; should i be firing away here?

Re: KQo UTG...
 

raise like not even close

Re: KQo UTG...
 

I personally throw away KQo in that position.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

depends on table conditions e.g. how much you're getting 3bet. in the right conditions easy raise, other times standard fold. sorry that's not much use.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

table vpip isn't all that helpful to determine whether you should raise. How often do they call raises? How aggressive are they both pre and postflop? Can't really say with that limited information what to do. I guess all that tells you is KQ is pretty borderline UTG, it can go either way depending on table conditions. So, if you aren't comfortable raising it you don't sacrifice much value folding it.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

meganit

Re: KQo UTG...
 

I fold sometimes UTG with KQo and run 24/18 overall, depends on table conditions.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

meganit

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising with KQos is only setting yourself up for harder decisions in big pots OOP, with horrible reverse implied odds. Toss it, and just loosen up on the button.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

i think negative rio is kind of blown out of proportion. most players you need to worry about are just going to knock you out pf with any hands that dominate you, so its usually not that big of a deal.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

But do you advocate raising KQos in EP? I think it's generally a move that is -EV in uNL.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

At what stakes do you think it's +EV?

Re: KQo UTG...
 

If you're not comfortable raising KQo UTG @ uNL, find a new table or get better postflop.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Raising with KQos is only setting yourself up for harder decisions in big pots OOP, with horrible reverse implied odds. Toss it, and just loosen up on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't mean it's not profitable to raise it and it does not have "horrible reverse implied odds." not every +ev scenario involves an easy decision

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
But do you advocate raising KQos in EP? I think it's generally a move that is -EV in uNL.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm ok with folding it or raising it. i feel like its good enough that if we're playing better than our opponents, that its a money maker. i don't like to play it without any reads. against actual good players, you don't want people to be able to put you on a tiny range of hands.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

KQo UTG is 6 handed a boarderline hand. You can throw it away if you feel uncomfortable with it and you will not loose much value by doing so, if you loose value at all.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

KQo UTG is a relatively big winner for me. I'm never folding it UTG. But you can't play it like it's AK...so I suppose it's a matter of comfort

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KQo UTG...
 

as long as your not limping with it UTG i think raising/folding is fine.

I dont think your giving up that much by not playing it from EP. but others might say otherwise. table texture is pretty important. if you have a couple of crazies behind you opening might not be best with this hand.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said this because looking at pokertracker, I was bleeding money in that position. So my fix was fold it.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

FWIW, KQo has about 25% equity vs five random hands, more than its fair share. I generally raise for value UTG.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Offsuit broadway is killing me. I get it alot UTG and in MP and i am clueless on how to play it.

for example, the table average vp is 27.4 and the villians are 31,30,31 and 17. I have been throwing these away. Is this woefully stupid; should i be firing away here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably leave that table unless one of those 30%er's had some glaring leaks.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

I won't fold KQo as it's better than most micro players' ranges, but I'm not 100% comfortable with playing it from UTG.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

UTG aren't we getting into some horrible spots? What happens when we're called and we whiff the flop?

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you're not comfortable raising KQo UTG @ uNL, find a new table or get better postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KQo UTG...
 

Raisy Daisy.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

Unless I am sitting at a table where I am going to get to see lots of free cards/showdowns or I have huge fold equity I will drop KQo UTG. I honestly do not think that you are losing out on too much if you drop it UTG.

The key to playing it is to realize that it is not a monster and being very cautious with it once you commit to playing it.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
UTG aren't we getting into some horrible spots? What happens when we're called and we whiff the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

c-bet or not depending on flop texture, 2 barrel depending on opponent/turn card, otherwise shut down to further action? doesnt seem difficult

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG aren't we getting into some horrible spots? What happens when we're called and we whiff the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

c-bet or not depending on flop texture, 2 barrel depending on opponent/turn card, otherwise shut down to further action? doesnt seem difficult

[/ QUOTE ]

That just seems like it would be ultimately -EV. I've run into so many situations where I c-bet with that type hand, get called, then get a marginal draw or pair on the turn and suddenly find myself putting more into what's become a decent-sized pot.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG aren't we getting into some horrible spots? What happens when we're called and we whiff the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

c-bet or not depending on flop texture, 2 barrel depending on opponent/turn card, otherwise shut down to further action? doesnt seem difficult

[/ QUOTE ]

That just seems like it would be ultimately -EV. I've run into so many situations where I c-bet with that type hand, get called, then get a marginal draw or pair on the turn and suddenly find myself putting more into what's become a decent-sized pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, do you play AK any differently UTG? Surely, you get put in those same exact situations at least fairly with AK... (minus the finding a marginal pair, which really, since we are speaking of a 1-overcard difference AND having a pair, is a pretty damn low percentage of the time).

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time to stop playing full ring.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I personally throw away KQo in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time to stop playing full ring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably my problem since 80% of my hand history is in full ring, and relatively new to 6 handed.

Re: KQo UTG...
 

Nooo, don´t fold KQo UTG, it is such a good hand. People call with dominated hands all the time. I muck it only if the table is very aggressive pf.