NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unknown?
 

I don't inquire about higher limits b/c I assume those games are played on levels beyond my comprehension at this point in time.


I feel like my KK is running into AA a ton lately preflop and I'm really starting to question whether its a leak to be calling off preflop for full(ish) stacks w/ KK. I asked this question a year ago and the response was to undoubtedly get it in preflop at NL50 & 100.

Do you still feel this way? Do you often find yourself folding KK to a 3bet shove vs. unknown?

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unknown?
 

There are maybe 5-6 NL100 regs I fold KK to preflop... And I don't think I have ever folded KK 100bb deep or less to an unkown ever.

Obv. there could be some crazy circumstance where like a unkown cold 4 or 5bet shoves and it's back to us not closing the action...

But generally, I think its a leak to be looking for spots to fold KK preflop especially vs unkowns at these levels.

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

I hate calling AI PF with KK. Just sucks playing good, solid poker for a whole session and than losing like 100BBs to some donk shoving his AA and hoping to get some idiot calling him(me in this case).
Yet, against an unknown, I would call more often than not, depending very much on his PF play (if someone limp/reraises AI from EP for example, I tend to fold most of the time).

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

I have the same problem, with kings I have been beat more times then not when all the money went all-in preflop, at NL100 I'm actually starting to think I should fold KK to a push preflop

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

I rarely fold KK preflop unless its against a well known nit with vpip under 10, against an unknown I usually try to get it in.

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you often find yourself folding KK to a 3bet shove vs. unknown?

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3bet shove? You mean you're raising 3-4x the big blind, and they're shoving and showing up with AA?

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you often find yourself folding KK to a 3bet shove vs. unknown?

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3bet shove? You mean you're raising 3-4x the big blind, and they're shoving and showing up with AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

YES

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

And this happens often?

You should catch KK vs. AA about once every 5300 hands. You shoud catch AA vs. KK about once every 5300 hands. This will tend to balance out. If you saved your entire stack every time you had KK vs. AA this would improve your winrate by almost .6BB. Of course, this is impossible, as you've usually already put some money in by the time you think someone has AA.

[ QUOTE ]
3bet shove? You mean you're raising 3-4x the big blind, and they're shoving and showing up with AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyway, this question is really about the ratio of shove with the nuts donkeys versus shove with ATC donkeys. I think we need a donkologist to answer this question properly.

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unknown?
 

Depends on ...

a) stack sizes
b) opponents stats
c) how the opponent views me
d) how the action went down preflop with all of the other players
e) if it feels like AA based on bet timing and other parameters

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

After I have been laughed at a few times, I have adopted a more agressive posture with KK. I have been calling ai with them, pre and post flop. So far I have ran into AA the last 3 out of 4 times; and have lost on the river the last two times. So I have only won 1 out the last six times with KK since I have taken the agreesive approach. I'm going to continue with this approach until my luck turns around or I'm out of money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

i never call 3/bets with KK.

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

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i never call 3/bets with KK.

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Are you being serious?

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

[ QUOTE ]
i never call 3/bets with KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you always 4bet it? I really don't understand. If you mean you fold then you're pretty damn easy to play against, can you please explain this statement.

Why the hell would someone 3bet shove 100+ BB to win like 5? I think I've seen this maybe 3-4 times ever and one of them was my friend misclicking for 350 BB with KK and getting called by a guy with AA that covered at 1/2.

Re: NL50 & 100, KK becoming a routine fold to all-in preflop vs. unkno
 

A question for those of you who complain about running into AA so much. How wide do you all 3bet generally and how light do you 4bet/call 3bets?

Also, do you all actually lose with KK or just run into AA more than you think you should?