50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

CO is 62.5/25/2.2 but I only have about 20 hands with him.
MP2 is 43/5/1.8 after a similar amount of hands.
I'm calling on the button here looking to take the pot heads-up depending on the flop, or in the hopes of hitting a set, but several other people come along.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB ($39.90)
BB ($88.40)
UTG ($15.40)
UTG+1 ($5.10)
MP1 ($10.35)
MP2 ($48)
MP3 ($50.25)
CO ($53.60)
Hero ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $2.5</font>, Hero calls $2.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2.

Flop: ($10.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($10.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $6</font>, CO calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $12, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $51.1</font>, Hero folds, MP2 calls $27.50 (All-In).

River: ($125.35) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $125.35

After he checks the flop, then calls a bet on the turn, then raises my raise, it feels like a monster. I'd have to imagine that jacks-aces would bet the flop and since there's no flush draw, a set might play like this? People like to slowplay at this level. I timed out while thinking that I was probably beaten, and I never look to fold sets but it just seems like this may be a place to do so, but I was wondering what you all thought.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

wow ... I get it in there

overcards, AT, AK even ... 99 with the squeeze from CO

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

I sorta like the fold here. It really does seem like you're beat. If he has an overset you have 1 out. Against a straigth you have more, but not enough given the pot odds. There is a CHANCE your good here too of course. He might have some kind of 2 pair or be playing a flush draw weirdly or something. I don't think this chance is high enough to make the call though.

Folding sets is tough at this level, but I think this might be a place to do it.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

I dont understand playing a hand like 4's then folding when we hit our set on a dry board.

Also, Why raise the turn if your planning on folding to a shove? With the stats these Villans have i cant fold here.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

Don't raise the turn if you plan on folding when you get what you want, which is to be shoved on.

That being said, if there's ever a spot to fold a set, this MIGHT be it, since your opponent really can't have much that you beat. He might be overplaying two pair once in awhile, but given that this is a multiway pot, you may actually be toast in this spot.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

Smells like TT/88, but I can't fold here. When you play mid/small pps for set value, you're taking into consideration the fact you pay off in set over set situations. People take strange lines all the time, and the small chance that he's playing oddly with anything other than an overset or turned straight (checked the up and down on the flop? bleh) is enough to call. Almost half your stack is already in the pot! Would you fold with these odds if the action had come on the flop?

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

you guys are crazy. you folded the best hand by far.

62/25 is the CO.
45/5 is the MP.

CO shoved OVER hero's raise, and MP's smooth called. they're donks, they have nothing. AAKK maybe. TT if CO is super lucky and spiked it. against donks i never fold set, especially with all the 2p possibilities out there. 8T, 54, random draws that he's going insano on. crazy players running 63/25 treat AA as the nuts, and they slow play them like crazy.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

its a bad fold

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

[ QUOTE ]
its a bad fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

If I get this action on the flop I'm probably not folding, because like I said, overpairs may be looking to get it in there, or are pretty much always betting unless they have aces (in which case I'd still imagine a bet). CO's VPIP and PFR are maniacal but neither player is super aggressive after the flop. I don't see people checking overpairs in a multiway flop like this very much. Even donks bet when they have a good hand that is vulnerable (whether they realize that or not), and this play just smells like a slowplay to me. Prior to my raise, no one has shown any strength so I have to think I'm good, especially since his PFR is 25% and he is in stealing position, but given CO's sudden shove, I really started to doubt that. I thought I was ahead of MP2 since if he had a set and missed a checkraise on the flop, I think he would reshove my turn raise instead of call it (unless he wanted to keep CO in the hand), with a flush draw out there and an unlikely straight possible. Either way, MP2 and I have awoken and CO doesn't seem phased.

What 2 pair hands make sense here? 8 10 doesnt seem likely because he would bet the flop. 45 is the only possibility but I really don't know if that is in his 25% raise range, maybe 45 suited I'm not sure. 68 VPIP makes me think he would limp with that.

Anyways, CO showed down 10's and MP2 had 23 (not spades).

It was my most lively hand of the day so I thought I would share it. In all honesty I hadn't totally decided to fold since I hate folding sets, but my timer ran out while I was trying to figure it out where I stood. Thanks for the comments.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

In my mind......you went wrong by not at least c-betting the flop. What's the point of having position if you're not going to use it to your advantage and gather information when it is checked to you? Calling pre-flop raises with small pp's and postion and then playing passive if you don't set is silly................

That's why you found yourself here.......

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

I think the fold is fine. Worse hands rarely play this way even from over aggressive players.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

Yeah I think C-betting the flop would probably save me from a tough decision later on, but do you think its profitable with 4 people, and if so, would a feeler bet of 1/2 to 2/3 the pot be good or should I just pot it to discourage callers after the weakness displayed after the flop?

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind......you went wrong by not at least c-betting the flop. What's the point of having position if you're not going to use it to your advantage and gather information when it is checked to you?

[/ QUOTE ]wtf is with you and info? betting here is turning your hand into a bluff against 3 people. 2 people checked to the raiser expecting him to bet and could have been waiting to c/r or at least c/c his bet. you use position in this hand by checking behind and hoping for a two outer.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

[ QUOTE ]
2 people checked to the raiser expecting him to bet and could have been waiting to c/r or at least c/c his bet. you use position in this hand by checking behind and hoping for a two outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Laughable......

I guess it depends on whether you advocate weak poker.

This is really simple. Poker is about gathering information and using your chips, card, position, info., opponents, etc. to take down pots.

If you MUST catch your set to win with your small PP, then you ought to be folding them every time PF. Otherwise, it has to be -EV to even play them if you can't call a postflop bet and you're too scared to bet with position unless you hit trips.

OP - your mistake was not to bet. Aggression is rarely a mistake in this game.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

wtf? you really folded?

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

Wow. criminal.

Re: 50 NL have a set but CO takes a strange line
 

Yeah, I was playing several other tables and I timed out so I guess I folded. He showed down a set of 10's. I felt like he had already given me a lot of information though. Against a total maniac I wouldn't do it but this guy hadn't done anything out of line post flop (through 20 hands of course), even though his stats are high.