You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

I am called to the table by an experienced dealer. Dealer reports: He brought the flop and he thought all checked, he tapped and burned then the button stopped him and announced he had not checked. Dealer lets him bet and 4 players call. Dealer burns again and brings a "10". UTG bets and 3 players call. Dealer then taps and goes to burn for river and notices 3 burn cards already. Floor is called. What is the correct decision?

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am called to the table by an experienced dealer. Dealer reports: He brought the flop and he thought all checked, he tapped and burned then the button stopped him and announced he had not checked. Dealer lets him bet and 4 players call. Dealer burns again and brings a "10". UTG bets and 3 players call. Dealer then taps and goes to burn for river and notices 3 burn cards already. Floor is called. What is the correct decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

The 10 stays as the players all acted on the 10.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

He should not have burned after the action was completed on the flop. The cards would have been right if not for the double burn.

The 10 stays because there's significant action on it. No KITN needed... this time.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

What about bringing the river card. I ruled the 10 live because of the action but what steps now should be taken before the river is dealt? Does the dealer burn a 4th card? Is there a reshuffle with the burn that would have been the natural turn? or does he just bring the next card off the top of the deck?

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am called to the table by an experienced dealer. Dealer reports: He brought the flop and he thought all checked, he tapped and burned then the button stopped him and announced he had not checked. Dealer lets him bet and 4 players call. Dealer burns again and brings a "10". UTG bets and 3 players call. Dealer then taps and goes to burn for river and notices 3 burn cards already. Floor is called. What is the correct decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

An experienced dealer, who notices a double burn,( assuming they are the only one that notices) would have continued without calling the floor.
Fire away...

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

I would leave the turn card as is because there has been significant action and recalling it would not be right. I would have them deal the river without a burn, as that would have been the correct river anyway.

on decision making in general
 

[ QUOTE ]
No KITN needed... this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now let's not be too hasty ...

Actually, when I was new to the floor, someone gave me some good advice. The said "never make your decision too quickly. Listen to the dealer, and then let the players have their say (when necessary). Consider the situation, decide what rule(s) apply, then decide. Remember that someone will usually be unhappy, so decide with authority and don't back down."

I add this: it's not always posibble to make everyone happy, but if there is a decision that will satisfy everyone, it should be strongly considered. Basically the only time you should choose against a decision that would satisfy everyone is when that choice would comprimise the integrity of the game. **

Al

**this could cover a broad array of situations

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have them deal the river without a burn, as that would have been the correct river anyway.


[/ QUOTE ] I agree.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am called to the table by an experienced dealer. Dealer reports: He brought the flop and he thought all checked, he tapped and burned then the button stopped him and announced he had not checked. Dealer lets him bet and 4 players call. Dealer burns again and brings a "10". UTG bets and 3 players call. Dealer then taps and goes to burn for river and notices 3 burn cards already. Floor is called. What is the correct decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

An experienced dealer, who notices a double burn,( assuming they are the only one that notices) would have continued without calling the floor.
Fire away...

[/ QUOTE ]

right or wrong this one time I would have continued without saying a word. If a player said something then I would have calle dthe floor.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but the reasons for the burn card are insignificant in this situation - with the floor standing there and everyone already watching carefully.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but the reasons for the burn card are insignificant in this situation - with the floor standing there and everyone already watching carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually not. The top card on the deck has been sitting there since the turn was dealt. If it has been compromised in an any way it makes no difference that after the turn betting the floor is standing there.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but the reasons for the burn card are insignificant in this situation - with the floor standing there and everyone already watching carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually not. The top card on the deck has been sitting there since the turn was dealt. If it has been compromised in an any way it makes no difference that after the turn betting the floor is standing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caught my own mistake here: No player would have known that this going to be the card in play when they were acting on the turn so i guess its not a problem.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]



True, but the reasons for the burn card are insignificant in this situation - with the floor standing there and everyone already watching carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually not. The top card on the deck has been sitting there since the turn was dealt. If it has been compromised in an any way it makes no difference that after the turn betting the floor is standing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caught my own mistake here: No player would have known that this going to be the card in play when they were acting on the turn so i guess its not a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, do you burn a card before the flop when a players card is exposed and he gets another card, or is the exposed card used as the burn?

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like not burning in order to get the "correct" river. It doesn't make sense to me. There is a reason for burning cards and the reason to have a burn card here is not alleviated by the fact that there was a double burn on an earlier street.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, do you burn a card before the flop when a players card is exposed and he gets another card, or is the exposed card used as the burn?

[/ QUOTE ]

The exposed card is the burn, but it goes back on top the deck thereby limiting the chance that the next card is compromised.

However I personally think a better procedure would be that the exposed cardgets mucked and then you proceed from there burning and turning . . .

This order of the cards thing seems to me to be silly superstition no different then the guy at the blackjack table whinning that another players actions disrupte dthe proper order of the cards.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 10 stays because there's significant action

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and I would have burned a card as normal prior to dealing the river.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

I agree with every word that psandman has posted in this thread.

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

Am I a bad floor. I ruled that action stayed on the 10, and that the last card burned was the natural river card. But, since the deck, or the burns had the slightest chance of being compromised, that the correct river card, (the last burn, be placed on top of the deck, the deck reshuffled, the dealer burn, (chance of burning the card intended on the river) and bringing the river like a "burn and turn".

Re: You make the call (Floor Decision)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I a bad floor.

[/ QUOTE ] You might find some people that disagree with the way you did it but the first rule is.. "All floor decisions are final".