A weird hand with a maniac
 

I basically have played no poker all month. But I decided to play a bit tonight and ended up on some weird tables and in some weird spots. I'll try to post a few interesting hands from tonight. Here's one (I think).

BB is literally playing at 71/41. He had a 3k stack when I sat down and now he's in the process of donking it off. CO is PoorUser. I figured A8h is too good a hand to fold at this table where everyone is deep and there is a maniac just waiting to give me money. But if I raise, the maniac will probably squeeze and then it's just going to be ugly. So I limp planning to LRR the maniac, basically. Unless a call looks better in the moment. But then PoorUser raises, and the maniac just calls. So I decide to LRR anyways since PoorUser can obviously just be isolating my limp and he'll respect a LRR especially with the maniac acting behind him. OK, plan goes well. Until maniac calls. Now what?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
TWP: $1923.50
CO: $2339.25
Button: $779
SB: $2414
BB: $2046.35

Pre-flop: (5 players) TWP is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
TWP calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $50</font>, 2 folds, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">TWP raises to $250</font>, CO folds, BB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($555, 2 players)
BB checks, TWP...?

Comments on all decisions appreciated.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

I am biased when it comes to suited Aces. I like them very much since they make nut flushes. Two things need to be understood though when playing them. 1)You need to recognize what a good flop for your hand is (given relative position and recent play by both you and opponent/s) 2)You need to be able to manipulate the pot to your liking.

#1 should be self explanatory. Vs. some, TP is good while vs. another you are playing for 2pair+. Obviously the more players in the hand (which is ideal) the harder you need to flop. I realize this isn't much different then how all hands are played but I feel suited Aces need that extra special attention since it may be easier to lose bigger pots if you play them wrong (thus the averseness of playing them to begin with). #2 is sort of a feed off that in respect to you dictating the pot size. Position is always good in any hand but with I feel less so with suited aces. The reason is because you have to be very conscious of your flop play. Thus if you are continuing after the flop, most likely you flopped strong enough to be in control of how big or small the pot becomes so you have more weapons to use comfortably when OOP.

This absolute ramble is an attempt to preclude those who say just fold PF. In my opinion people are too quick to release a hand like this when OOP.

As for the hand, I don't like opening the betting again where you are on a total bluff and will have to fold to a 4bet. I want to see a flop with this hand. Especially 3 way with some money in the middle. So no likey the flop play. Just call.

Most of the weight for the top of monkeys ranges with this PF line is typically mid PP's. So if he didn't hit this flop, he didn't miss it either. I also see no truly good turn card that will make you feel remotely comfortable. I realize that last statement is an endorsement to bet/shut down but too often you need to fire 2 barrels minimum and often 3 to get the desired fold so the investment on a bluff here seems too high.

I fold to any turn bet except a clean heart (no 2h or 9h) and even then it needs to be a 2/3PSB or so to call. Anything larger and I fold.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

so your line is to limp/call UTG against a TAG preflop raiser and then to c/f the flop? how can that line possibly be good...

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

With what hands did he go to showdown alot? What does he calls flops with etc?

But I c-bet the flop like always, like 400-ish.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

I hadnt been at the table long, but he was like 70/40/1.5AF/40WTSD%. So pretty much just an insane maniac calling station like in the good old days.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

twp, u dont c/f the flops u dont whiff. u should really do something about ur win-every-pot-syndrome.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

dear god what does a lrr accomplish vs that guy? did u honestly think he would fold?

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

Value?

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

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dear god what does a lrr accomplish vs that guy? did u honestly think he would fold?

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I dont he LRR to make him fold.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

are u guys joking or not? i cant really tell.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

I think his range is pretty massive here so seems like an easy bet.

Pf I'd rather fold than limp rr but i'd prolly just raise and deal w/ a squeeze if it happened. I dont think these guys squeeze that much anyway. Most of their high pfr % tends to come form opening pots.

Paul

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
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dear god what does a lrr accomplish vs that guy? did u honestly think he would fold?

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I dont he LRR to make him fold.

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I think he did. And that is kind of mindboggling. Once the drooler found a hand he called the first raise with, he is calling the second raise 80% of the time. Hate preflop.

Whats so bad about just calling preflop and playing a hand with good implied odds deep vs PoorUser and the drooler. PoorUser will play honest since the drooler is in there. Check folding a lot of flops is not a disaster if you can win a big one every once in a while.

If you flop top pair you can lead into PoorUser, he is unlikely to raise without having you beat since the drooler is in the pot.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

LRR for value is sexy. Valuebet this flop.

LRR to make him fold a better hand is spewtastically retarded.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

ur value playing vs 70/40s with WTSD of 40 doesnt come from extracting the maximum of ur 5% preflop equity edges. wtf?

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

You guys rly like bloating the pot oop deep v a maniac w/ A8. I think any small pre flop equity edge is countered by the headaches this guy will give you post.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

preflop is terrible. postflop I'd just check it down because he's not folding better

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

playing this pre is a spew - just fold this junk utg.

as played I bet 440 and obv fold to resistance.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

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ur value playing vs 70/40s with WTSD of 40 doesnt come from extracting the maximum of ur 5% preflop equity edges. wtf?

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Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

He has basically a random hand. a)he does fold 30% of the time - maybe when he has to put 25bb in with cheese is one of those times? b)his range is mostly crap preflop and will be mostly crap on the flop. I bet 400 and he instamucked. I did LRR after all! Even this dude is not going to need two barrels to get off bottom pair, right?

Well, that's what I thought at the time, but a small part of me WAS afraid that he was either going to c/r or c/c with a slightly better (or maybe even c/r a worse) hand. You guys think this whole thing is retarded, though? Just limp/call and check/fold?

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

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so your line is to limp/call UTG against a TAG preflop raiser and then to c/f the flop? how can that line possibly be good...

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In this case vs. this specific opponent, with another player still in.....yes. You're calling the raise in an attempt to get his stack, not win a small pot. Big deal if you miss the flop and have to fold. Deal with it I guess. Luego continues to make the point in your threads to stop trying to win every pot. Take that to heart.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

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Even this dude is not going to need two barrels to get off bottom pair, right?

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LOL

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

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Luego continues to make the point in your threads to stop trying to win every pot. Take that to heart.

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LOL

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

preflop is fine since he isolated the fish... i wouldn't bet most flops i miss against someone like this with ace high, but this is probably the kind of texture i would take a stab at

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

yea betting this flop is like a thin value bet

it's a fancy play which i kind of like - the problem is when pooruser wakes up with a hand.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
He has basically a random hand.

[/ QUOTE ]No, he doesn't. Their open-limping and limp-calling ranges are often a lot wider than coldcalling-3betcalling ranges. His range is not the 70% his VP$IP is; or at least there's no way you can claim it is after this little hands.

I'd like limp-call and check-fold better than what you did preflop.

Re: A weird hand with a maniac
 

well it's an aggro 6-handed game. so it's not like it's getting limped around very often. one hand before, someone opened to 40, there was one caller, and this guy made it 650 to go. on another hand, he opened to 770.