$10NL PF with 44
 

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($5.30)
Button ($10.90)
Hero ($10.05)
BB ($5)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($9.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero....???

My first instinct is to raise but I don't know if it's the proper play here. Guy has been min-raising with all sorts of garbage.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

I raise to .50 all day long here. If he min-raises, just call and see a flop since you'll have odds to hit a set.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Just call from the SB and play no set/no bet.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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I raise to .50 all day long here. If he min-raises, just call and see a flop since you'll have odds to hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]only .50?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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I raise to .50 all day long here. If he min-raises, just call and see a flop since you'll have odds to hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]only .50?

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That would be 4xBB + 1 correct?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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Just call from the SB and play no set/no bet.

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Do you think it's bad to raise here? I usually raise all my PPs pf. If you think this guy is going to min-raise you is it a bad idea?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

right, but we're playing from the blinds OOP

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Call

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($5.30)
Button ($10.90)
Hero ($10.05)
BB ($5)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($9.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $1.2</font>, MP folds, Hero....??

Well here's how it played out...how do you treat this situation now?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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Just call from the SB and play no set/no bet.

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Do you think it's bad to raise here? I usually raise all my PPs pf. If you think this guy is going to min-raise you is it a bad idea?

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I don't think it's bad to raise 44 here. I just don't see an overwhelming reason to do so at NL10. Which I assume has more limped pots and more loose passives than levels above. Just limp it, blend in, value bet the heck out of it when you hit your set.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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Just call from the SB and play no set/no bet.

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Do you think it's bad to raise here? I usually raise all my PPs pf. If you think this guy is going to min-raise you is it a bad idea?

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I don't think it's bad to raise 44 here. I just don't see an overwhelming reason to do so at NL10. Which I assume has more limped pots and more loose passives than levels above. Just limp it, blend in, value bet the heck out of it when you hit your set.

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I usually raise these for a few reasons:
-fold everyone pf and take it down now
-build a decent pot so if I hit a set I can more easily stack someone
-Take the initiative in the hand and cbet the flop which will usually take the pot down.

When you just limp with a pp here you lose all of the above and its a lot more difficult to stack someone if you hit.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($5.30)
Button ($10.90)
Hero ($10.05)
BB ($5)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($9.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $1.2</font>, MP folds, Hero....??

Well here's how it played out...how do you treat this situation now?

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Well, now you fold obviously. Look at BB's stack.

This is another factor in limping vs. raising this preflop. If you raise it and get two callers, you're screwed unless you hit a set. You raise it and get 3b, you have to fold. You limp it and get raised small, you might be able to call. You limp it and bb checks, you get a 3-way pot where, if you hit a set, there's a greater chance someone else hits a second best hand. I would just complete 22-77 all day long at NL10 in this scenario.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Dude, in the blinds your almost freerolling.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Raising from the blinds with small pairs just isn't profitable. Call and see what develops.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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I usually raise these for a few reasons:
-fold everyone pf and take it down now
-build a decent pot so if I hit a set I can more easily stack someone
-Take the initiative in the hand and cbet the flop which will usually take the pot down.

When you just limp with a pp here you lose all of the above and its a lot more difficult to stack someone if you hit.

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These are all very good reasons sir. And at NL100 and above, yeah, raise 'em up. But, when the games are alot more limpy and alot more loose passive, completing 44 is fine.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($5.30)
Button ($10.90)
Hero ($10.05)
BB ($5)
UTG ($10.10)
MP ($9.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $1.2</font>, MP folds, Hero....??

Well here's how it played out...how do you treat this situation now?

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Well, now you fold obviously. Look at BB's stack.

This is another factor in limping vs. raising this preflop. If you raise it and get two callers, you're screwed unless you hit a set. You raise it and get 3b, you have to fold. You limp it and get raised small, you might be able to call. You limp it and bb checks, you get a 3-way pot where, if you hit a set, there's a greater chance someone else hits a second best hand. I would just complete 22-77 all day long at NL10 in this scenario.

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Thanks for the perspective aj.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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Just call from the SB and play no set/no bet.

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I don't totally agree, but I do see what you're saying. Personally I raise it. (Actually I raise almost ATC here). The biggest problem with raising 44 here at NL10 is that at NL10 they will call 3 streets with 55 on a A K T board. You just have to be good at hand reading and knowing your opponent.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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right, but we're playing from the blinds OOP

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What hands will the open-limper fold for 0.65 that he won't fold for 0.40?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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right, but we're playing from the blinds OOP

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What hands will the open-limper fold for 0.65 that he won't fold for 0.40?

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Probably not many. What do you raise AA to in this situation?

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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right, but we're playing from the blinds OOP

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What hands will the open-limper fold for 0.65 that he won't fold for 0.40?

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Probably not many. What do you raise AA to in this situation?

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As much as I think he will call, but not less than about 0.50.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

"Just limp it, blend in, value bet the heck out of it when you hit your set."

Agreed.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

Grunch,

Why do you raise almost ATC from SB with a limper at this level, knowing they'll call any pair down?

FWIW I like limping here too at NL10.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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Grunch,

Why do you raise almost ATC from SB with a limper at this level, knowing they'll call any pair down?

FWIW I like limping here too at NL10.

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They don't always have a pair.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

i always raise in this spot, but not so much to take the pot down as to get paid when i make a good hand. the more people put in before the flop, the lower their requirements become for fighting for the pot after the flop. calling and raising are both easy profit though, oop or not. i should also add that i'm a 3+1/.66 guy and not a 4+1/.75 guy, though, so the dynamics might be a little different for me than most.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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My first instinct is to raise but I don't know if it's the proper play here. Guy has been min-raising with all sorts of garbage.

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I'm confused here. Which "Guy" min-raises with garbage here, MP or BB? Considering their different stack sizes this is an important distinction. Since in your second post the BB mins I will assume this is the person infered. So knowing that the BB mins with garbage and has half a buy-in I guess the question is what outcome were you expecting that you didn't have a response to before raising? If you weren't planning on 4 betting or pushing than what's the point of having a strong read on an opponents tendencies (they like to min raise), than 2 betting preflop into them knowing this and than when they three bet Hero doesn't know what to do?

GIven your read of villian if you weren't willing to push once you were 3 bet into you probably should have limped preflop rather than starting to build a pot you might abandon later.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

raise is fine
call is fine
depends on the condition of the table

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

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right, but we're playing from the blinds OOP

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What hands will the open-limper fold for 0.65 that he won't fold for 0.40?

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Probably not many. What do you raise AA to in this situation?

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As much as I think he will call, but not less than about 0.50.

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But do we want to raise our premium hands differently than our mediocre hands? That's what I'm having trouble following here. If I'm going to raise in that spot, I feel like I'm giving away too much information if I'm raising more with my super strong hands than others.

Re: $10NL PF with 44
 

limp/call for set value. you cannot call BBs raise profitably OOP so the spot you're in sucks [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]