Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

Quick one and maybe not even mildly interesting compared to Randy's and some other posts. I wasn't in the hand (I folded BTF) but would have ruled it differently than a few other players who were adamant they were right.

Game is NL with 5-10 blinds. Post flop a player lead bets all-in for $5. Next player (with lots of chips) calls the $5.

A player speaks up and says "Hey, you need to make it $10. Ten dollars is the size of the big blind and the minimum bet when you have chips."

Was the player who spoke up correct?

~ Rick

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

I think so. I'm extrapolating from preflop, where even if the BB had only $5 in her stack, $10 would be the bring-in.

ON SECOND THOUGHT: Preflop is totally different because you're always expected to pay the BB to see a flop, whereas checking is legit on postflop rounds, so perhaps that extrapolation doesn't apply. Curious what the floor ruled.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

I think he does have to make it the minimum bet but note that it is not considered a raise from SB and he will have action again if it is raised enough to allow him to repop.

Edited: Sorry, let me edit to make it clearer: It is a call and his action will be closed if any raise is not enough to repop.

Edited a 2nd time: Yeah, I didn't see it was post flop so I don't think it has to be a min bet.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

No the player wasn't correct. I see this all the time in limit games, where someone goes all in for 1/3 the minimum bet.

EDIT: If it was the same situation preflop, then the player would have been correct. In general, you can't see the next street unless:
1. There is no bet to you
2. You are all in
3. You have matched the maximum bet on that round

The max bet on that round was the $5 all in bet.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

Since it's a call and not a bet, everyone could call the $5 and stay in the hand.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

Maybe some rooms are different, but where I've played, you're able to either call the short bet or complete to the full bet. I'm sure some places have it where you can either call the short bet or raise one full bet on top of it. I'd be checking the rules of the room before making a decision on it, but at first glance being forced to complete the bet is just silly.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

You can call it, complete it, or raise it.. I think the OP point was that you just couldn't call the $5; which you can. It's called a call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

For those who think you can call, what happens to the BB? Can he take half of it back?

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

[ QUOTE ]
For those who think you can call, what happens to the BB? Can he take half of it back?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a post-flop situation. The Big Blind from the pre-flop betting round is already in the pot.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

Online I know in tourneys and sngs that if someone goes allin for less than minimum bet preflop, all players that want to play the hand have to at least call BB amount. However, post flop people can call and allin for less than minimum bet amount. The player is mixing up pre and postflop rules.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

WTF is the person not pushing the last 5 preflop for?

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF is the person not pushing the last 5 preflop for?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the action in my OP was on the turn. On the previous round (the flop betting) the player had called a late position bet just under his stack. It's possible he had some sort of draw and didn't want to alert the less attentive that he was effectively all-in.

Or he intended to rat-hole his bus money if he lost [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

Rick,

Of course he can just call the $5.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe some rooms are different, but where I've played, you're able to either call the short bet or complete to the full bet. I'm sure some places have it where you can either call the short bet or raise one full bet on top of it. I'd be checking the rules of the room before making a decision on it, but at first glance being forced to complete the bet is just silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind this is no limit. In limit with a $5 allin lead bet on a $10 betting round it would clearly act as a full bet in most rooms (since it is half or more) and could be called or raised to $15. On a $20 betting round the $5 allin bet would be "action only" and clearly could be called.

Assuming we are speaking no limit I agree with you yet three players insisted the next player had to make a "full" $10 call (or make a decent size "lead bet"). At he time I simply said "Uh, what?" but didn't make it an issue since I wasn't involved.

Anyway upon further refliction this simply doesn't make sense. To illustrate let's say the pot is three-way and the $5 lead bet came immediately after the first player had checked. If the third player must at least complete to $10 then the first player who checked can now checkraise this very small "bet completion" which in isolation would never had been made. Obviously this puts the third player in an unfair spot.

Like I said I didn't bring this up at the table (or belabor any point at all) but after the hand it got me thinking they just had to be wrong. But I trust you guys over the opinion of most floor.

~ Rick

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

of course you can call it

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rick,

Of course he can just call the $5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if the great El D says so then it's official that I was right (but meek about speaking up).

~ Rick

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

Here is the applicable clause in Robert's:

NO-LIMIT RULES
1. The number of raises in any betting round is unlimited.

2. The minimum bet size is the amount of the minimum bring-in, unless the player is going all-in. The minimum bring-in is the size of the big blind unless the structure of the game is preset by the house to some other amount (such as double the big blind). The minimum bet remains the same amount on all betting rounds. If the big blind does not have sufficient chips to post the required amount, a player who enters the pot on the initial betting round is still required to enter for at least the minimum bet (unless going all-in for a lesser sum) and a preflop raiser must at least double the size of the big blind. At all other times, when someone goes all-in for less than the minimum bet, a player has the option of just calling the all-in amount. If a player goes all-in for an amount that is less than the minimum bet, a player who wishes to raise must raise at least the amount of the minimum bet. For example, if the minimum bet is $100, and a player goes all-in on the flop for $20, a player may fold, call $20, or raise to at least a total of $120.

Objector in OP was incorrect.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

Rick,

I think you could have said either of these things to the guy who spoke up:

a: "$10 is the minimum amount to BET, but if he wants to CALL, then he can call whatever the amount to call is."

b: "ARE YOU F'ING RETARDED, OF COURSE HE CAN JUST CALL THE $5 BET!"

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quick one and maybe not even mildly interesting compared to Randy's and some other posts. I wasn't in the hand (I folded BTF) but would have ruled it differently than a few other players who were adamant they were right.

Game is NL with 5-10 blinds. Post flop a player lead bets all-in for $5. Next player (with lots of chips) calls the $5.

A player speaks up and says "Hey, you need to make it $10. Ten dollars is the size of the big blind and the minimum bet when you have chips."

Was the player who spoke up correct?

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rick,

I think you could have said either of these things to the guy who spoke up:

a: "$10 is the minimum amount to BET, but if he wants to CALL, then he can call whatever the amount to call is."

b: "ARE YOU F'ING RETARDED, OF COURSE HE CAN JUST CALL THE $5 BET!"

[/ QUOTE ]

In the OP I said only one spoke up so the force of the majority wouldn't sway opinion here but as I mentioned later three players actually spoke up with the F'ING RETARDED opinion. And when I'm a little tired and I'm not even in the pot I just don't have the energy to take on all three at once.

~ Rick

Re: Must a SB sized allin postflop bet be completed to the size of the BB?
 

No. I have had a player argue with me on this one. Only if this was before the flop, with a big blind less than full, would there be a requirement to complete. After the initial blinds, all-in is all-in. I don't have a copy of some rulebook with me here in Reno, but I do have a KITN for anyone who's got an arguement over such a trivial point.


Al