General set advice searched
 

In my last 5k hands i run pretty cold not getting any action on my strong hands (set or better)

I have 2 examples. and i would like to know how you play it against 2 different Villains.

1. Villain is Vpip: 20-24 and PFR: 13-20 and AF: 3 (obviously pretty decent)
and the other one is unknown.
1.
Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3456
CO: $2362.50
Button: $1970
SB: $350
hero: $2087

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $70</font>, 3 folds, hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($150, 2 players)

Board is drawy, we are OOP vs preflopraiser.


2.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3456
CO: $2362.50
Button: $1970
SB: $350
hero: $2087

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $70</font>, 3 folds, hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($150, 2 players)

Board is dry, but hit his range pretty often.

I recently prefer the c/r line in the first example for both my draws and my strong hands, because i can catch Villains cbets here pretty good. If called i will lead turn for 3/5 to 3/4 of the pot with both.
Which lines do you prefer.

Re: General set advice searched
 

waaaaait for it, waaaaaaaaait for it....



















it depends.

b/3b, b/c, c/r and c/c are all viable on both boards depending on the villain and ur history. like if u have checkcalled and checkfolded to second barrels a lot in the past u can c/c and c/rai, or if u have gotten out of line with draws in the past u can c/r etc. it all depends what villain thinks u wont do with a set.

Re: General set advice searched
 

Mostly a big c/r in hand 1, cause i do it with draws as well and on this board it's very likely i have a draw.

Hand 2 really depends on a villain.If he is a passive station, i obviously lead.If he is a LAG, i might check-call and lead turn, almost always looks fishy to them and they raise air.Against a standard TAG really depends on my history against him...All lines are viable.

And if you don't get action, it's because they probably missed the flop...

Re: General set advice searched
 

In example one i think it´s an easy checkraise.We can checkraise our draws, too, because there aren´t many draws in our range. AQss, AJss, perhaps KQss/QJss.With this draws we have nice equity against his pushing/callingrange.


In example two villain often has a gutshot.
On a A92r Board i would check/call the flop and checkraise the turn. AT5r is close and it depends on your other lines and your range. What is your coldcalling range?

22-JJ? Does villain know that you are a good player?
As a default line i think i check/raise this flop because villain can only put us on 55/TT or a bluff.

Re: General set advice searched
 

In a vacuum for the first one I mix it up between bet/3bet and checkraise. In the 2nd one I like c/c lead turn.

It's very opponent sepecific though and as luegofuego has said you have to mix it up based on image and history.

Re: General set advice searched
 

There is always something awkward to C/R draws. What do we do if he pushs ? what do we do when he calls and turn is blank ( I guess his flop-call is not good, but it happens )

Re: General set advice searched
 

If you regularly c/r draws I def prefer a (pretty big) c/r in hand 1, esp if villian is aware of that but I prefer that even if he's not. If you aren't c/r draws regularly I like c/c c/r turn in that hand.

Hand 2 I prefer leading even though c/r is fine as well, if you decide to c/c, I think leading the turn.

Players are more apt to fire second barrels on the hand 1 board than hand 2.

Re: General set advice searched
 

in the first one i c/r there almost all day, maybe sometimes i would b/3b but c/r a huge % of the time.

In 2nd one, if the guy has bad hand reading skills i will c/r but if hes good ill c/c, reason is im pretty sure i never c/r AT5 rainbow with anything apart from set, i dont even think its possible for me to have AT there...

Re: General set advice searched
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is always something awkward to C/R draws. What do we do if he pushs ? what do we do when he calls and turn is blank ( I guess his flop-call is not good, but it happens )

[/ QUOTE ]

In the first hand, if he pushes and you have a FD with likely overcard, or a FD with gutshot or better straight draw (the only draws you should probably c/r in this spot imo), it's easy you call. You are going to checkraise to like 550 to 650 here. When he pushes it will be like 1350-ish back to you to win 2550, and unless he is a total nit who always folds overpairs to the checkraise you are +ev against his range.

If he calls there will be 1350 in the pot on the turn and that much left in your stack roughly; with 13-15 outs probably and any chance he folds at all you shove the turn. It would definitely be best to make the flop c/r on the bigger side to ensure you have odds here.

Re: General set advice searched
 

I think we came to a good point here:
We should play our big hand similiar to a draw.

So let`s go on with just the first hand which seems more interesting.

Í think the general consensus was we won`t give a free turn, so either it`s b/3bet, c/r or b/c and lead turn.
I think the most used are either c/r or b/3bet.


What sizing would you choose? Would you choose the same sizing?

Let`s say:
c/r like Villain bets 100, Hero now raises to 400 or 600?

bet/3bet like Hero bets 100, Villain raises to 350, Hero pushes or raises to 1000

Re: General set advice searched
 

if you c/r, 450 seems fine. if you bet 100 he raises to 350, make it 950 or so, pushing is fine as well.

if you bet/call, c/r all-in on turn. I think thats a good line as well.

Re: General set advice searched
 

Isn`t b/c c/r turn dangerous, because he could check behind?

Re: General set advice searched
 

I mean it really doesnt matter whether you try to c/r or b/3b the flop or occasionally just c/c. What matters is how u play other hands on similar boards. What do you do with draws on the first hand? What do you do with say aj on the second hand? Im not asking you to state what you do, but what im saying is that an opponent shouldnt be able to tell the difference when you have a draw and when you have a set, or when you have top pair medium kicker, or a set. With all these types of hands, you should theoretically have all the ricks up ur sleeve. WIth a draw you should be able to c/r, b/3b, and c/c, and the same with a set, middle pair, and top pair. Now obv you dont want to be c/r and b/3b with middle pair and top pair very often, but to be truely unexploitable you would have to do it once in a while. And while it may be -Ev, for the metagame it is +++EV for sure. ANd Im sure at 10-20 there is a lot of metagame situations.

Re: General set advice searched
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn`t b/c c/r turn dangerous, because he could check behind?

[/ QUOTE ]
he will often put you on a draw and make a bet to protect him hand, then when you c/r he will probably feel committed if he had some kind of high PP or something.

if he checks behind its not that much of a disaster since you will often get value on the river when you bet or even c/r.

also, he might have air and bet the turn where he shoulda folded if you had bet.

so the downsides of risk of giving a free card is far less than the upsides imo.

Re: General set advice searched
 

[/ QUOTE ]also, he might have air and bet the turn where he shoulda folded if you had bet.

so the downsides of risk of giving a free card is far less than the upsides imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn`t exactly this a good reason for the c/r line?
I doubt a PFR will often raise a bet with air, that means we miss value.

Re: General set advice searched
 

to this point (and i think it will be the final result) the most would play c/r.

So I think you should choose b/3bet or b/c lead turn.