16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

There are 16 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

Chip Jett
Karina Jett
Thomas Wahlroos
Jim McManus
David Benyamine
David Chiu
Steve Brecher
Max Pescatori
Lynette Chan
Keith Sexton
Paul Sexton
Michael Craig
Stuart Paterson
Clonie Gowen
Toto Leonidas
JJ Liu

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3456 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

I'd rather they just gave it all to me but that's also an idiotic idea.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are 15 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3240 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure if FTP pays their entry, and even if they do, the site does give back the money because if you bust them you get a bounty equal to the buyin. end thread no discussion necessary.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather they just gave it all to me but that's also an idiotic idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

knock all 15 out of the tourney and your good to go

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

It's a lose-lose proposition for paying players. The 500K Guarantee always oversells, and so these guys truly are getting a free ride on FTP profits, profits which paying players create.

The most key point is that if any of the FTP pros cashes that subtracts from the monies split-up between cashing players who paid buy-ins.

A side point is that any time one of these guys is at your table, you're life is made more difficult because (1) they tend to be very good players and (2) they have zero financial risk (other than their time) and so they can play an aggressive style more easily than others (on average).

A side point is that most of these FTP Pros are financially quite well off, so why should they get a free ride ? Why not randomly select FTP members for a free ride ?

I don't see what a lot of these guys add to my tournament experience. Who cares if you play with / bust-out Jim McManus or Toto Leonidas or one of the Sexton kids ?

It's just pure cronyism on Chris Ferguson's part.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are 16 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

Chip Jett
Karina Jett
Thomas Wahlroos
Jim McManus
David Benyamine
David Chiu
Steve Brecher
Max Pescatori
Lynette Chan
Keith Sexton
Paul Sexton
Michael Craig
Stuart Paterson
Clonie Gowen
Toto Leonidas
JJ Liu

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3456 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm they dont take the cash out of the prize pool so why would you care? I personally think that FTP does a better job taking care of players than most sites.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

So they give them free entries, or they stop doing that and give them a pay raise. What is the difference? Its a promotion that a lot of bad players enjoy. You should thank them for doing this.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

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Umm they dont take the cash out of the prize pool so why would you care? I personally think that FTP does a better job taking care of players than most sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the FTP Pros cash in the tournament it's paid for out of the tournament prize pool, that's why I care.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

I don't understand the problem. Who cares who pays? The money is still in the prize pool.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Umm they dont take the cash out of the prize pool so why would you care? I personally think that FTP does a better job taking care of players than most sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the FTP Pros cash in the tournament it's paid for out of the tournament prize pool, that's why I care.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol this guy doesn't want poker pros to play in poker tournaments is basically what he is saying.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's a lose-lose proposition for paying players. The 500K Guarantee always oversells, and so these guys truly are getting a free ride on FTP profits, profits which paying players create.

The most key point is that if any of the FTP pros cashes that subtracts from the monies split-up between cashing players who paid buy-ins.

A side point is that any time one of these guys is at your table, you're life is made more difficult because (1) they tend to be very good players and (2) they have zero financial risk (other than their time) and so they can play an aggressive style more easily than others (on average).

A side point is that most of these FTP Pros are financially quite well off, so why should they get a free ride ? Why not randomly select FTP members for a free ride ?

I don't see what a lot of these guys add to my tournament experience. Who cares if you play with / bust-out Jim McManus or Toto Leonidas or one of the Sexton kids ?

It's just pure cronyism on Chris Ferguson's part.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's hard to argue any of the points you made...

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

OP seems to think they are just being granted entry into the tournament.. but FTP is putting money up for them to enter, and that money goes into the prize pool. not only that but they have to pay out bounties when these guys get knocked out. it actually costs full tilt more money than if these pros didn't play.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

its stuff like this that has made ftp ond of the biggest poker sites, so stop ur moaning op, this is great for poker

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

OP, do you realize how much of a kick it's giving many players to be just playing in the same tourney with these pros? Maybe it's because they are getting a free roll that most of the pros almost never go deep. It's not like they are consistently in the top 3 or even final table, so I don't see the issue. If you don't like it... play on a different site maybe?

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are 16 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

Chip Jett
Karina Jett WHO?
Thomas Wahlroos
Jim McManus
David Benyamine
David Chiu
Steve Brecher WHO?
Max Pescatori
Lynette Chan WHO?
Keith Sexton WHO?
Paul Sexton WHO?
Michael Craig WHO?
Stuart Paterson
Clonie Gowen
Toto Leonidas
JJ Liu

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3456 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I maybe a little outta touch, but who the hell are 6 of those players?

And why would FT sponsor them?

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP, do you realize how much of a kick it's giving many players to be just playing in the same tourney with these pros? Maybe it's because they are getting a free roll that most of the pros almost never go deep. It's not like they are consistently in the top 3 or even final table, so I don't see the issue. If you don't like it... play on a different site maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeaaaaaaaaay. I stole Lynette Chan's small blind.

I know it would be the highlight of my week.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

it is [censored] that they get in for free if they do get in for free but oh well i guess FTP does this to atract more players

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

Bah. OP, if FTP pays for their entry, they are still putting up 3200$ in the prize pool.

You somehow missed that in your lengthy posts. I don't care how they buyin, as long as they put 200$ somehow. If Jesus wanna pay for 'em, i don't care.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP, do you realize how much of a kick it's giving many players to be just playing in the same tourney with these pros?

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, I played a few of the events at the Four Queens Classic. Even in the preliminary events, I got to sit at a tables with the likes of Tom McEvoy, TJ Cloutier, Scott Nguyen, Huck Seed, David Ulliot, Eskimo Clark and Peter Costa. Although my fortnight in Vegas was a net loss, they are still the highlights of my time in poker.

EDIT: In other words, don't underestimate the "omg I got to play with the best!" factor, it's very real ^.^

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP, do you realize how much of a kick it's giving many players to be just playing in the same tourney with these pros? Maybe it's because they are getting a free roll that most of the pros almost never go deep. It's not like they are consistently in the top 3 or even final table, so I don't see the issue. If you don't like it... play on a different site maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard of anyone in a $216 buy-in tournament getting a kick out of playing with these players. The only comments I've ever seen in chat for the vast majority of these people are who are you ? and why is your name in red ?

Those people in a $216 who might actually know who most of these players are don't really give them much respect. I'd say they're indifferent to their presence, at best.

For those high buy-in tournament players who are pro and semi-pro, it's kindof like the celebrity A,B,C lists, they just want to move from the 2p2 B List to the FTP A List.

It's similar to Jennifer Tilly's televised poker celebrity status. Just because she somehow got on the Poker Celebrity A List (because she was in a bunch of B movies and TV shows) doesn't necessarily mean (1) that she can play poker, or (2) that she's all that hot (even for a 49 year old, in my opinion).

Of those high buy-in tournament participants who are not pro or semi-pro level players, I doubt most of them have ever heard of 75% of the FTP Pros. Yeah, you can look them up on google, but it's not like another one isn't minted every other week.

Plus, do some of these FTP Pros even care about their jobs ? I heard that Carlos Mortensen a lot of times if he wants to go off-roading with his buddies he just throws the tournament.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a lose-lose proposition for paying players. The 500K Guarantee always oversells, and so these guys truly are getting a free ride on FTP profits, profits which paying players create.

The most key point is that if any of the FTP pros cashes that subtracts from the monies split-up between cashing players who paid buy-ins.

A side point is that any time one of these guys is at your table, you're life is made more difficult because (1) they tend to be very good players and (2) they have zero financial risk (other than their time) and so they can play an aggressive style more easily than others (on average).

A side point is that most of these FTP Pros are financially quite well off, so why should they get a free ride ? Why not randomly select FTP members for a free ride ?

I don't see what a lot of these guys add to my tournament experience. Who cares if you play with / bust-out Jim McManus or Toto Leonidas or one of the Sexton kids ?

It's just pure cronyism on Chris Ferguson's part.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's hard to argue any of the points you made...

[/ QUOTE ]
What is the difference between FT giving them free entry into some touraments vs paying them? Fine, don't give them free entry, but pay them X dollars a month, which is equal to N number of tournament entries and *require* them to participate in N tourneys. Isn't that the same thing?

Also, Keith Sexton is not realted to Mike Sexton.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]

It's kind of like Jennifer Tilly. Just because she somehow got on the Poker Celebrity A List (because she was in a bunch of B movies and TV shows) doesn't necessarily mean (1) that she can play poker, or (2) that she's all that hot (even for a 49 year old, in my opinion).

[/ QUOTE ]

have you seen 49 year olds?

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

if you're +EV in the tourney then these guys being there wont matter, they're either going to be worse than you or the cash wont be that important to them so they'll play poorly

only time its in any way bad is the tiny chance a good one gets deep and so do you

but anyway, they do give it back it the form of bounties and a kickass tshirt

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

I'd suppose the alternative would to just give the pros more $$$ and not pay for their buyins? At least this way the pros have a reason to play in FTP tourneys where they might not otherwise bother.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the difference between FT giving them free entry into some touraments vs paying them? Fine, don't give them free entry, but pay them X dollars a month, which is equal to N number of tournament entries and *require* them to participate in N tourneys. Isn't that the same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that these people shouldn't be paid at all. Do you like it when golf and/or tennis tournaments pay certain talented well-known golfers or tennis players to play the game ? I don't. If they're so good, why can't they pay their own way ?

And this doesn't even approach the level of professionality of golf or tennis. This is just Chris Ferguson and Perry Friedman saying "Yeah, he's a good guy, a good face for FTP ads, pay him to play." Or even worse it's just favors to their buddies, or just favors in general.

Re: 15 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

that is a sad list of "pros"

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]


And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]

just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on your "WHO" list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]

just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on that list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

why aren't you a FTP pro?

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on your "WHO" list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for making my point for me.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]

just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on your "WHO" list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...=r&n=56511

All I can hope is her breasts are better looking than her poker record.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

I've heard many pros say they only play with their own money online, but FTP backs them in live tournaments.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

if you cant see how having the pros playing in the tourney adds value for your average recreational player, and that this is a good thing then I dont know what to tell you...

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]

just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on that list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

why aren't you a FTP pro?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I remember Shaniac posting a long rant about corporations in the politics forum a while back.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

Who cares?

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

op, you do realize that as that list grows, the tournament becomes *more* profitable for the other players? not only does full tilt pay bounties in addition to the entry fees, but a lot of those guys kind of suck.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are 16 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

Chip Jett
Karina Jett WHO?
Thomas Wahlroos
Jim McManus
David Benyamine
David Chiu
Steve Brecher WHO?
Max Pescatori
Lynette Chan WHO?
Keith Sexton WHO?
Paul Sexton WHO?
Michael Craig WHO?
Stuart Paterson
Clonie Gowen
Toto Leonidas
JJ Liu

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3456 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I maybe a little outta touch, but who the hell are 6 of those players?

And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the Sextons are Mike Sexton's kids. Karina is Chip Jett's wife. She consistantly is one of the first players knocked out of the Sunday fixed limit HORSE tournament.

Benyamine is a top player. I really don't see anyone else on the list who I recognize as a particularly strong player. Of course top players might not want to play in a $200 tournament.

Like the other poster said, people probably want to play with big names. I don't know what Full Tilt pays for all these 4th tier celebrities and whether it is worth it for them.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
op, you do realize that as that list grows, the tournament becomes *more* profitable for the other players? not only does full tilt pay bounties in addition to the entry fees, but a lot of those guys kind of suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't crunched the numbers but it's not at all clear that your statement is true.

I think on average the FTP Pros are better than the average player in a high buy-in tournament. Adding better than average players to a tournament does not increase the expected value for the average player (whether the better than average players pay their buy-in or not).

The point of the free buy-in is to get these players to play the tournaments, supposedly because that somehow makes for a better tournament experience. My argument is that the presence of these players does not provide a better tournament experience for the average player.

The average player is interested in winning money. The average player does not care about the presence at his table of some stupid caricature avatar with a name he has never heard of that never participates in chat.

The bounties help at little, but first, most players are not playing to get their buy-in back, and second, the bounties are actually not as good as people here seem to think :

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker offers players the opportunity to earn a Bust-Out Bounty on any red pro playing in a scheduled real money tournament. These bounties do not apply to red pros playing in S&G tournaments. Players who bust a red pro from a tournament will receive a bounty matching their tournament buy-in, not including the tournament fee, up to $200. Players in tournaments with buy-ins of more than $200 will receive a bounty of $200 for any pro they bust. In the rare case when multiple players split a pot where a red pro busts, any player who wins a piece of the highest pot the pro was involved in will receive a full bounty for busting the red pro. If play in a qualifier tournament continues after all of the top prizes have been earned, a player will no longer be allowed to collect a bounty on any red pros that remain. For example, if a tournament offers World Series of Poker Main Event seats to the top five finishers, and a red pro is one of the last five players in the game, there will be no bounty awarded if he or she is busted from the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

I think you might be dumb, its sixteen people in a huge field. Their entry was paid and is in the prize pool. There is absolutely nothing to bitch about.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are 16 FTP Pros in the 500K Guarantee today :

Chip Jett
Karina Jett WHO?
Thomas Wahlroos
Jim McManus
David Benyamine
David Chiu
Steve Brecher WHO?
Max Pescatori
Lynette Chan WHO?
Keith Sexton WHO?
Paul Sexton WHO?
Michael Craig WHO?
Stuart Paterson
Clonie Gowen
Toto Leonidas
JJ Liu

My understanding is that these guys have their buy-in covered by FTP. I'd rather FTP didn't pay for these guys and instead spread that $3456 back to paying players in some manner.

Please discuss ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I maybe a little outta touch, but who the hell are 6 of those players?

And why would FT sponsor them?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the Sextons are Mike Sexton's kids. Karina is Chip Jett's wife. She consistantly is one of the first players knocked out of the Sunday fixed limit HORSE tournament.

Benyamine is a top player. I really don't see anyone else on the list who I recognize as a particularly strong player. Of course top players might not want to play in a $200 tournament.

Like the other poster said, people probably want to play with big names. I don't know what Full Tilt pays for all these 4th tier celebrities and whether it is worth it for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chui is an excellent player, as is Toto. But what value can they bring to the site?

Obv if Ivey or Lindgren was playing that would definitely attract extra players.

But I can't believe any of these guys bring a penny of extra business to FTP.

Re: 16 FTP Pros in 500K today
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just to piss off bustedromo.

Fwiw, everyone on your "WHO" list has had some amount of marginal tournament success and Lynette Chan has breasts. Michael Craig is an author who collaborates with a lot of FTP pros on various book projects, and I believe he also made a couple WSOP 2007 final tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for making my point for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what are you saying? Now your point is that you're pissed off because FTP pays the entry fee for a bunch of high-profile, overexposed, overpaid donkeys?

You still haven't even identified a problem here, btw.