Playing with friends in cash games?
 

Hi, I'm planning a trip to Vegas soon with a couple friends, and we plan on playing a fair bit of poker. I've never actually played cash games live for any extended period of time; I've only played tournaments live in a casino. I have a few questions.

1) When you are with friends, do you play at the same tables with them?

2) If so, do you just play with them like you would anyone else?

3) Is it considered unethical to avoid pots with them?

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

1) Yes, but I try to avoid it whenever possible.

2) No, I generally avoid trapping and/or stacking them

3) I believe so, but I'd rather be considered slightly unethical by poker players than clean out a friend. I never play differently when there are others in the pot though.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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1) When you are with friends, do you play at the same tables with them?

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Yup

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2) If so, do you just play with them like you would anyone else?

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Yes, although usually we'll go in saying that we'll return whatever we take off each other (or some percentage).

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3) Is it considered unethical to avoid pots with them?

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Eh, there are worse infractions.

Cody

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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1) When you are with friends, do you play at the same tables with them?


[/ QUOTE ] Yes

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2) If so, do you just play with them like you would anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, and I expect them to do the same. If either one of us has an issue with this we need to be on separate tables.

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3) Is it considered unethical to avoid pots with them?

[/ QUOTE ] No to avoid pots with them. Yes if I play them differently i.e. soft-play when I do enter a pot with them.

Peace,
Mygtar

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

1) Yes, i prefer it.

2) No. I usually target my friends even more if im in a pot with them. We play for the competition, the money is by the by.

3) I'd say so but hardly the worst crime as long it doesnt affect other players directly. However it is boring! Poker is not a team game. Why play a game like poker with friends if you arent going to play it properly

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

Not only do i play with them but i play the best poker i can in order to take there money

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

When I've played with friends we usually ended up going after each other - bragging rights for who-busted-who can be a prized thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I usually try to avoid playing at the same table as my friends. We have a saying, "Win from strangers and lose to your friends."

If I do find myself at the same table as my buddies (and this does happen, usually late into the session and when we want to talk and hang out), I play as usual.

Softplaying is not very sportsmanlike. I avoid some pots when certain friends are in because I know how they play and what they probably hold.

I remember a quote from somewhere.

"I order to be a good poker player, you have to be willing to check raise your grandmother for her last chip." [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

My good friends usually like to check it down if we're heads up but it's every man for himself when there's one or more other players in the pot.
ps I'll only play with my friends if given no choice. They all play good.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I love playing at a table with friends, and will never, ever softplay them. If anything, it's the opposite. If they're thinking of playing a limit they can't afford, I'll say something to them ahead of time, but once they sit down they've come to play. Just play poker. The reason I prefer playing with friends is because it's more fun.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

Due to lack of tables offered - i will quite often find myself playing on a table with my housemate and good friend.

We have never played each other differently from the point of view of being a friend - though obviously we adjust since its rare we arent the two best players on the table.

The fact i know his game so well, and visa versa, means we obviously do things against each other that wouldnt wash with the normal players - from a bit of needling to making good solid read based play.

We never colluded and i never would.

I dont consider it unethical to avoid pots with a friend - but i have no second thoughts about stacking a friend too. Last time we played live together i won £320 and he lost £350 - a large chunk of which he lost to me in a couple of our encounters. But its swings and roundabouts and no one can ever claim we softplay each other [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Fwiw - ive seen friends agree to chop a pot preflop after squeezing out another player. One had AA, the other KK. They were both regulars and ive played them a lot since but whilst i know its within the rules i believe stuff like that goes against the spirit of the game and in many ways could sour it for a recreational player who is there to just splash around.

One of them said they would have split the cash later anyway which im 100% fine with - but if it happened tonight instead of two months ago when i was pretty new to live poker id have said a fair bit more. Ironically if they hadnt shown their cards it would have never been remembered and no one would have thought anything about it there.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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Fwiw - ive seen friends agree to chop a pot preflop after squeezing out another player. One had AA, the other KK. They were both regulars and ive played them a lot since but whilst i know its within the rules

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Actually, it's not. It's completely against the rules and splitting the money later is even worse.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

GB (or someone else),

Really? Its my impression you can chop at any point if everyone agrees. Also its probably key to note the hands werent shown till after they agreed.

Im not entirely sure why splitting the cash later is wrong too.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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Im not entirely sure why splitting the cash later is wrong too.

[/ QUOTE ] This would be sharing the same bankroll, so therefore we would effectively have twice the opportunity to win. Isn't this how real collusion works? You and me split the winnings at the end? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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1) When you are with friends, do you play at the same tables with them?

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Only if we have to.

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2) If so, do you just play with them like you would anyone else?

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We do not shy away from pots with each other, although we do play a very straight forward game against each other heads up.

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3) Is it considered unethical to avoid pots with them?

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I wouldn't think it would be that unethical to simply just avoid playing pots with them.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I have seen friends playing together at the same table all the time. Last Friday I was at a table for several hours with a young woman. After a couple of hours, her boyfriend table changed to our table and she changed seats to be next to him. No one complained. I’m not sure they ever ended up HU against each other. She was a very loose, passive calling stallion and was doing pretty well. She was one of the players making it a good table, so I sure didn’t want her to leave. Her boyfriend was tighter, but kept having to rebuy.

The bad thing to do is to play stupid, hyper aggressive poker against your friend. It will look like you two are team players and trying to drive everyone else out of the pot. That could bring complaints from other players. I was at a low limit table in Vegas a few months ago where two young men, probably bothers, were playing hyper aggressive poker, frequently capping it pre-flop and on the flop. They left the table together and one of the players observed that they combined their chip stacks to cash out. He made loud complaints to the dealer about team play by these guys, although it was not clear what the dealer could do, since they had already left the table.

Capping it pre-flop with 64o because your buddy 3-bet is probably not a good move, even if that is the way you play against each other in home games.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I would play at the same table as my friends for the fun factor but I would play my A game against them as opponents including any reads I already had.

If I skinned them for some cash, I'd buy dinner and drinks afterwards.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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I would play at the same table as my friends for the fun factor but I would play my A game against them as opponents including any reads I already had.

If I skinned them for some cash, I'd buy dinner and drinks afterwards.

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I totaly agree with POF.

Also make sure your buddies are on the same page.

My wife and I try to sit at different tables but sometimes we cant. She has no problem taking me to the cleaners but she often makes it up to me later [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

My bf and I sit at the same table if we have to, but we try not to. When we do play against each other, we have no problem playing our best. Unfortunately, my best two hands in Vegas were agaist him, and I took his stack both times [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'll admit I would have rather taken someone else's money, but I had no problem taking his!

I agree that not playing your best or agreeing to split pots later is collusion. I'd hate to play against people who were doing that.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

Never play cards with friends.

Always play cards with strangers.

One thing i never do with friends is take money from them. If I want to take money from someone it can only mean they are not my friend(s).

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

true

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

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One thing i never do with friends is take money from them.

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I take money from strangers. I charge my friends for lessons.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I used to play at the same table as my friend/roomate, and many awkward situations came up. We basically agreed to check it down if it was heads up and tried not to trap the other. In a multiway pot, it was supposed to be fair game, but occasionally we would make a -EV play because we didnt want to trap the other in the middle. Eventually we realized we shouldn't be playing at the same table under these conditions.

If you plan on soft-playing against a friend, checking it down with a friend, etc., then I suggest just playing at different tables. If you get seated at the same table, one of you should immediately ask for a table change and leave as soon as possible.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I always take money from friends and they always get mad. I try to explain to them that it wouldn't be fair to the other players at the table if I softplayed my buddies but didn't with strangers.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I always try to play at the same tables as my friends.. makes it way more enjoyable. Usually I just play easy on them if we are heads-up and sometimes just check it down. If its a more competitive friend I might treat them like any other player.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I try to avoid it, but when I do we usually agree not play any differently when other people are in the hand and check it down if HU

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I try not to play serious stakes w/ real friends. But one time a few years back I played a buddy of mine so hard and pimped him proper w/ just one pair. I got mutliple bets on him on ever round (5) and got him for 5 bets on the river. There was no collusion in this hand and nobody at the table knew that we were friends, but after the hand everyone started talking mad smack about how poorly my buddy played. Since they had absolutely no respect for him after this particular hand, they started making all kinds of plays at him, I felt kinda bad that I sorta open the flood gates on him that night, but hey we're still buddies. BTW we were playing the biggest limit game in the house back then.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

Some of my biggest wins have come by playing sort of passively while a bunch of somewhat knowledgeable but drunk friends tried to fancy play each other right into my nuts and near-nuts.

Some of most miserable poker experiences have come while watching a friend or relative play poorly at the same table. It's a distraction to see someone you care about throw away money.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

My buddies and I have what I call a "straight play" agreement with each other if we're at the same table. Basically it just means we'll play our hands and won't try to bluff each other if it's just two of us in a hand. If there are other players in the hand all bets are off and it's business as usual. So, if I were to flop a monster heads up against a good buddy I'd way overbet the pot to give him the message. Now, if he calls that's his own fault and I keep every dime.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

In the casinos, I don't play any different against my friends unless we get heads up. Then it's bet if you have it, fold if you don't.

I do have one friend who I love to play with becuase he is super rich, but horrible at poker and isn't afraid to throw his money around. He is super aggro and kind of an ass at the table, so he builds giant pots and really loosens up the games. I don't go after his stack, but the big pots be builds. It's proven very profitable so far.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I hit a royal flush on the turn while playing a pot with a co-worker. I slow played it and stacked him and then got another $600 for a bonus from the casino. I gave him his $100 back, though.

Re: Playing with friends in cash games?
 

I go to the casino with my twin brother a lot. Usually we play the same stakes, and sometimes the floor just sits us at the same tables. We've never asked to be seated together. I don't mind it really. But I'd rather not, because then you're really on everyone's radar. Some people think it's cool we're twins, others probably think we're colluding.

I remember one hand, there was a guy between me and my twin. The guy limped UTG, my brother limped, all folded to me and I checked the BB. I had Ax. Flop was low and all checked. Turn was and Ace but I decided to check(don't ask why, it isn't a hand post). River was a deuce. I bet small, trying to value bet. The guy in the middle called. My brother raised! I thought for a while and since I know how he plays I knew he wasn't bluffing and folded. The guy in the middle folded. Some person not in the hand asked to see me brother's hand. He had 22 for the rivered set. This was pretty much the only time we were in a weird situation.

If anything we play more vicious towards each other. We are best friends, but all the same we are very competitive and hate losing to one another. It helps us in the long run though, and mostly it's a friendly competition. Whenever we really wanna play vs. each other we just set up a freezeout or HU cash game at home.