$114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

Once again no PA, or reads.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t1645)
UTG+1 (t1860)
MP1 (t1540)
MP2 (t1470)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1190)
Button (t1645)
SB (t1390)
BB (t1260)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero raises to t90</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>, CO calls t90, Button calls t90, SB calls t75, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t390) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks

Turn: (t390) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
<font color="red">SB bets t90</font>, Hero calls t90, CO calls t90, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>

River: (t660) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
<font color="red">SB bets t90</font>, Hero calls t90, <font color="red">CO raises to t300</font>, SB calls t210, Hero ...

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

id call but it seems like u were up against kq and are wondering if u could fold, i dont really understand how u play this hand, call turn to get more money and then river sucking co in for 90 seems pointless, but as played call river

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

Gotta bet/raise somewhere, probably on the flop. Someone will be in the vicinity of this flop so the flop is probably the place to do it. As played, I'd raise the turn. As played, after this action on the river, geez, I guess I call? Just don't fold.

Ryan

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

easy call here , dude i think if you win here, you're dont post this post right?
chances that the guy has trips only 0.24% on the flop and 33% for full only , don't think what he has , on the distance i think it's ev+ ...
and else why are didn't raise river ?

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
why are didn't raise river ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. What???
2. Because its not a 6.50

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

i like the flop check.

on the river, sb for sure does not have you beat because he did not reraise. i'd reraise the river now that you have another chance. the betting has been pretty small and I think you are usually ahead of co here. he could have a Q, AT, T9 (possible suited), or even a K.

since you play a lot of 114's+ and dont know the co, there is a very reasonable chance he is bad. i suppose you could SS him since your hud is not working. i'd like a river call better vs a known solid player.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are didn't raise river ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. What???
2. Because its not a 6.50

[/ QUOTE ]
haha you wanna say that i play 6.5$? idiot !

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

Call, and frankly, I find not betting the flop to be criminal.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are didn't raise river ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. What???
2. Because its not a 6.50

[/ QUOTE ]
haha you wanna say that i play 6.5$? idiot !

[/ QUOTE ]

He's saying a raise would be awful at this level. Calm down, sport.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

i mean first raise , after sb bet 90 in pot 600 , not second.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

Man you must be running bad. Reraise turn, reraise river. Pray for action on all streets.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

I like leading on the flop for sure. It's already a sizable pot and the flop is likely to have hit someone (either a Q or a draw). It'd be a lot different if the flop were J33 where I think a check is almost mandatory. As played, I'd def raise the turn, but the river kind of depends. It'd be nice to have reads because against solid players you can just call, but I guess against unknowns you should be raising.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are didn't raise river ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. What???
2. Because its not a 6.50

[/ QUOTE ]
haha you wanna say that i play 6.5$? idiot !

[/ QUOTE ]

He's saying a raise would be awful at this level. Calm down, sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise wouldn't have to be awful here. I'm sure there are plenty of villians in the 114s who a shove would be correct against, but there are also a few who you're beat against a significant amount of the time so shoving would be really bad. The 6.50 comment was simply meant to say that you can't just blindly raise here because you have a really good hand. That doesn't work at that level. Thanks for calling me an idiot though. I'm sure your ePenis is bigger than mine. Congrats.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

My thoughts:
Betting the flop is fine, but I wanted people to hit there gutshots, or boat up their pocket pair, etc. There's really no risk in checking since although people could suck out with bigger boats, they're not folding the flop anyway. However, Chipchucker, you may be right. I might be losing too much value on a flop with this texture.

Keep in mind KQ/QJ make up a pretty large chunk of a cold calling range. QT- and AQ are less likely. I doubt sb is bluffing into 3 people. I think KQ/QJ are pretty likely here. I just don't see much value in a raise at any point. I would be hoping he cold called with AQ/QT/AT and pretty much nothing else.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading on the flop for sure. It's already a sizable pot and the flop is likely to have hit someone (either a Q or a draw). It'd be a lot different if the flop were J33 where I think a check is almost mandatory. As played, I'd def raise the turn, but the river kind of depends. It'd be nice to have reads because against solid players you can just call, but I guess against unknowns you should be raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

i really like your point about flop lead

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts:
Betting the flop is fine, but I wanted people to hit there gutshots, or boat up their pocket pair, etc. There's really no risk in checking since although people could suck out with bigger boats, they're not folding the flop anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]



If this is your reasoning for not betting the flop, then you gotta be ready to commit your stack later on in the hand, unless running Ks, Aces, or another queen comes out. You didn't give a better hand enough of a chance to show itself, that guy could be trying to take down the pot on the river with relative weakness shown from you and the SB, or he could have AQ, Q 10, A 10. If he has KQ or QJ then you load up another one.

(You should probably have bet the flop and definitely should have raised the turn.)

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

I think the only street i like is preflop.

Re: $114 Almost flop nuts and get in trouble
 

DDBeast,
I agree with your point on the flop, but you can make a stupid bet like 1/3rd pot and accomplish basically the same thing.
As played I raise turn I mean if his range is KQ+ raising is still really +EV.
I would raise the initial river bet, but as played I guess I call.