109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

New to table... hand before, i raised and got reraised by villain in this hand. I called with AK and check pushed a QTx flop, he had Aces. What do I do on the turn here?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t3180
UTG+1: t2750
MP1: t3540
MP2: t3185
MP3: t4670
CO: t7455
Button: t8060
hero: t2290
BB: t5265

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
7 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises to t150</font>, BB calls t100 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t200)</font>.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t300, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets t200</font>, BB calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t500)</font>.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t700, 2 players)

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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New to table... hand before, i raised and got reraised by villain in this hand. I called with AK and check pushed a QTx flop, he had Aces. What do I do on the turn here?


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Was this the immediate hand before? So you were BB and he limp raised preflop from UTG? If so I don't like how you played AK there.

I don't really think it affects this hand too much either way. Considering your image, especially against this villian, I'd be looking to get it allin with TT here. Usually I would be looking to lead for about 450 and call a shove but considering you check/raised with air in the AK hand I think going for a CR here is the best line.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

I probably bet 400, because of the hand before, I think he may call you with weaker hands, but I don't think he'll raise on the turn with less than a Q because of your previous play, since he knows at that point you're more probably calling because of your aggresive check AI before or just because of tilt. So, if he raises the turn, I'm most probably folding.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

bet/call.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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bet/call.

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How much? reasoning?

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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New to table... hand before, i raised and got reraised by villain in this hand. I called with AK and check pushed a QTx flop, he had Aces. What do I do on the turn here?


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Was this the immediate hand before? So you were BB and he limp raised preflop from UTG? If so I don't like how you played AK there.

I don't really think it affects this hand too much either way. Considering your image, especially against this villian, I'd be looking to get it allin with TT here. Usually I would be looking to lead for about 450 and call a shove but considering you check/raised with air in the AK hand I think going for a CR here is the best line.

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No, it was 2 or 3 hands before.

Edit: Put response outside of the quotes.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

If there was more i could beleive villain would jam with over a bet i'd go with bet/call.

Seeing as there isn't, i like check shove a bit more.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

chk

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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bet/call.

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How much? reasoning?

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bet whatever amount you usually 2barrel with here, I think 350 is a good bet size to get him to jam his draws,

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Hasn't he already jammed his draws?

I'd probably check and then bet/call river.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Check/call turn and probably just about pot most rivers because I think given our image we'll get paid off with a hand worse than TT here. I don't really love check/shoving though because I think it's tough to sell that we would do this twice in a row basically on a semi-bluff and I think it looks kinda strong.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

i'm pretty baffled by responses here, i'd start off by checking the turn though.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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bet/call.

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I can't find the pic of that cat that looks all confused going "What?" or something. But pretend he's here and he's all confused and it's really cute cause it's a cat and he acts like a person.

Def def def check. Not 100% sure what to do afterwards, but I default to calling tiny bets that look like villain couldn't find the check button and folding to larger ones.

Edit: Here's the cat

http://gallery.ksilebo.com/d/5027-2/1143439398189.jpg

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

bet/calling is way better then c/shoving because he's seen you do this with draws etc that means he's more likely to check behind turn with his draws/weaker hands. You get more value vs those hands by leading and calling a shove.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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chk

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There he goes again w/ the one word answer. Like "guys I said check, so obviously that's right. Because I said so. I'm Ansky LDO."

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

I really don't like bet/call. What could possibly give you the indication that villain would raise as a bluff here? If he raises he has to have you crushed like 99% of the time. I'd bet/fold and check the river or CRAI.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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I really don't like bet/call. What could possibly give you the indication that villain would raise as a bluff here? If he raises he has to have you crushed like 99% of the time. I'd bet/fold and check the river or CRAI.

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Surely if we are going to bet / fold then checking becomes much better?

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Why do you guys think that a guy like this is going to be bluffing us? He lrr'ed AA from utg, that tells us he's not very good. You bet to get value from your hands against him, especially when he might call down because he thinks you're tilting, you don't check/call against this kind of guy. Checking only is good against people who have high bluffing tendencies.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

I'm not checking to induce a bluff but because there is a whole range of hands that will put more money in but not after two barrels with a card to come.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

FEAR THE BUDDHA BELLY.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

I'm checking because I think villain's bluffing frequency is typically going to be really low here, and when he does bet, his bet sizing will often make it easy to play perfectly.

In other words, I think I can save money in the long run against his better hands by checking, and I don't think I lose much against his weaker hands because he often folds them to a bet, and he often does retarded [censored] like bet really small with them.

Of course, we lose money to flush draws, since they like always call a bet, so it's def not a clear check or anything.

The fact that sometimes FDs shove (not nearly as often as shaun seems to be implying) is another point in favor of checking.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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He lrr'ed AA from utg, that tells us he's not very good.

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Whoa whoa whoa limp reraising AA UTG is AWESOME

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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chk

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There he goes again w/ the one word answer. Like "guys I said check, so obviously that's right. Because I said so. I'm Ansky LDO."

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I don't think you read his long rant, but the gist of it was.
1. I'm busy when I post sometimes.
2. I don't need to give in depth responses.
3. I have contributed a ton to this forum so you shouldn't criticize me when you don't contribute anything.

I would check this flop sometimes. As played I think I c/c turn c/f river (obviously dependent on river card)

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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He lrr'ed AA from utg, that tells us he's not very good.

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Whoa whoa whoa limp reraising AA UTG is AWESOME

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As an aside, Gobbo could you explain more to us non-MTT gods? Lately I see quite a few (not necessarily good)players lrr utg with a wide range, AK and 99+, so has llr'ing AA maybe come full circle back to not being a bad idea again? Just a thought.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Anything that you do that will let a good player drastically reduce your range is bad. Most people in tournaments do not do peculiar things without a ridiculously strong hand. In cash games it's usually either a really strong hand or really weak hand, but in tournaments it's usually just strength because people are so terrified of losing big pots.

So when he LRRs with the nuts preflop, you should be mucking almost everything. If he does it with ONLY AA then it's a terrible terrible play because he's turning his hand faceup. You should only do this if your range is super wide for doing so, and it shouldn't because it barely ever works and puts you in some terrible situations after the flop when it just gets people limping, which is what happens when you play low stakes and live tournaments.

If you make it so that there are only a few ways you'll play pretty much any hand, you make yourself basically unreadable. Most of the play I do is very boring, because I'll take 3-4 lines with basically any hand and it makes playing against me high variance and in a lot of spots, -EV.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Bet/fold....


bet/call , check/shove = lol with given history in said tourney

i like gobbos and sirios reasononings.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

Guys, I'm sorry if I didn't clarify this, but he did not limp re-raise. I opened UTG+1 for 150, he made it 400 next to act.

Anyways, I bet 450 and folded to a push because I don't think this guy every pushes with a hand that I don't beat. Which is why I thought check call might have been better.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

you think he just calls with some club hands that just turned a str draw or ones that turned a pair. We have 40% of our stack in there on the turn you don't think we have 33% equity vs his shoving range. I personally think we have more then that so call please.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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Anything that you do that will let a good player drastically reduce your range is bad. Most people in tournaments do not do peculiar things without a ridiculously strong hand. In cash games it's usually either a really strong hand or really weak hand, but in tournaments it's usually just strength because people are so terrified of losing big pots.

So when he LRRs with the nuts preflop, you should be mucking almost everything. If he does it with ONLY AA then it's a terrible terrible play because he's turning his hand faceup. You should only do this if your range is super wide for doing so, and it shouldn't because it barely ever works and puts you in some terrible situations after the flop when it just gets people limping, which is what happens when you play low stakes and live tournaments.

If you make it so that there are only a few ways you'll play pretty much any hand, you make yourself basically unreadable. Most of the play I do is very boring, because I'll take 3-4 lines with basically any hand and it makes playing against me high variance and in a lot of spots, -EV.

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Oh okay agreed - I like my limp-reraise range to be TT+, AKo, AQs+, KJs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, dependent on player.

Re: 109 20k guaranteed, what to do on turn?
 

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I'm checking because I think villain's bluffing frequency is typically going to be really low here, and when he does bet, his bet sizing will often make it easy to play perfectly.

In other words, I think I can save money in the long run against his better hands by checking, and I don't think I lose much against his weaker hands because he often folds them to a bet, and he often does retarded [censored] like bet really small with them.

Of course, we lose money to flush draws, since they like always call a bet, so it's def not a clear check or anything.

The fact that sometimes FDs shove (not nearly as often as shaun seems to be implying) is another point in favor of checking.

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While I understand what Gobbo et al are getting at. The above makes the most sense to me.