WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Day 1, after dinner break. Blinds at 200-400/50. (maybe 300-600/75)

I got 36.5k to start the hand.
CO - weak tight italian woman. Have c/f or just folded to a donk bet after raising pf few times.
SB/Villain - super lag asian kid, half aggro half calling station. Doesn't like to fold. Def plays by "feel" and is not a pro. Talked about how he is a blackjack player that bought in cause he won a tournament at the venatian. Has me well covered.
BB - calling station donkey, pro bowling player who registered cause he was bored.

CO opens to 1100. I call on the button with 58dd, since I know 100% both blinds will call every time. Might be a mistake. Both blinds do call.

Flop 854cc.

SB leads out 3000. He has done that over and over so far. Never showed his hand tho. Usually took it down on flop or the turn, sometimes backed off when played back at.

BB folds quickly, CO folds quickly. Back to me. I raise to 12k. Leaving me about 23k behind.

Asian says "I call" very quickly.

Turn 6c. 8546ccc. He thinks for a few secs and check. Your play here? I checked.

River bricked (Maybe off suit J/T). He quickly bets 25k. I fold.

Thoughts?

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

I was moved to the seat on Yuv's immediate right as he was calling the PF raise in this hand. When the river came and he had decided to fold he flashed me his cards, and my stomach sunk. such an ugly spot, i have no idea what to do, but i think i likely just stick it in on the turn.

edit:

i busted to the villain in this hand~!

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Preflop I guess your play is ok. I'd prefer having a slightly better hand and also in most scenarios if both blinds call you'll be first to act assuming the raiser bets first, although this did not happen in this hand.

I think there are two ways to play the hand on the turn.
One line is how you played the hand. Alternatively, when small blind checked you could have bet and played accordingly.

Trying to put villian on hand with his description is virtually impossible. He could have two clubs, 78, air, anything is possible.

My default in this type of setting is probably to give up on the turn reluctantly.

Bruce

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

line seems fine to me although I would just fold preflop

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Even if you know blinds are calling, I dont know if calling is still right. I mean whatever, it's not bad, you wanna play poker, that's fine.

On the flop I think you either gotta call his bet or push turn if you're gonna raise that much. personaly, because of the deep stacked nature of the situation I think I just check/call down after that flop.

Gotta be aware that something like half the deck sucks for you (for the turn) after that flop. I don't think anyone faults the river fold, but personally if you're gonna raise flop you gotta push turn I think.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Pre flop is meh in any tournament outside WSOP ME, where seeing flops with people in position is more or less printing money.

Post flop is perfect. Nice meeting you at WSOP yuv.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

I think that w/ the description of the cutoff, I'd coldcall preflop if I thought that the blinds wouldn't come along.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Post flop is perfect

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

don't like pf.

postflop is standard.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

I think you played this just right. Of course, most of my bustout hands involve one-gapped suited cards, so I might not be the best judge of these things.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

seems fine to me all around.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played this just right. Of course, most of my bustout hands involve one-gapped suited cards, so I might not be the best judge of these things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Join the club

Anyway, I think it's totally fine, including preflop, and if you aren't tangoing in spots like this, you're missing out on money

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
and if you aren't tangoing in spots like this, you're missing out on money

[/ QUOTE ]

Nath's starting hand chart:


http://www.jfitz.com/cards/windows-playing-cards.png

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
and if you aren't tangoing in spots like this, you're missing out on money

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Playing 85 would be marginal without a PF raise. With one it's an easy fold to me. Maybe if it were 6-7 handed, but just on the hope of 4 handed it seems, well, hopeful.

If you're playing 58s as a float in the spot, what are you actually folding?

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if you aren't tangoing in spots like this, you're missing out on money

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Playing 85 would be marginal without a PF raise. With one it's an easy fold to me. Maybe if it were 6-7 handed, but just on the hope of 4 handed it seems, well, hopeful.

If you're playing 58s as a float in the spot, what are you actually folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing the point.

He's calling 85s almost 100bb deep in position against a woman who has shown the propensity to open pots preflop, and be extremely weak-tight postflop.

I disagree with anyone who thinks calling preflop here is bad.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

calling preflop is only a mistake if you're going to make more mistakes because of it, calling or folding by itself cant be a mistake imo

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and if you aren't tangoing in spots like this, you're missing out on money

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Playing 85 would be marginal without a PF raise. With one it's an easy fold to me. Maybe if it were 6-7 handed, but just on the hope of 4 handed it seems, well, hopeful.

If you're playing 58s as a float in the spot, what are you actually folding?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a whole lot- I'm definitely not folding anything that can flop big. Then again, I'm better than you are at using position, reading my opponents, and getting value in thin spots.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

we really need to stop getting in arguments with the bad players that post in this forum. it derails too many interesting threads

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

that's a pretty awful thing to say [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Wow @ how many advocate folding this preflop. Having position this deep against these monkeys with a hand with some potential = +EV.

I think you played it perfect.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Preflop is so standard.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

pf is ok, but lets not go overboard and say its like necessary or something

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Looks good to me.

I occasionally call preflop with air if I think calling pre and raising a c-bet on almost any board is profitable. Just should be noted that if you're gonna do this, you can't just do it EVERY time you have air because almost all players will take a stand if you're that blatant (except on the bubble [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] ). So I just try and guage a player's frustration level and do it as frequently as I can without risking getting played back at.

An alternative is just to throw in some hands like 85s that are just below the hands that you'd call anyone with.

In reality, the best thing to do is mix the two. If you haven't been [censored] with this person for a while, just call with total crap. If you've been [censored] around a ton and you think they're ready to take a stand, fold even the nuts that is 85s.

Re: WSOP ME day 1, worst turn card ever.
 

Next time river the boat