Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Would anyone object (hypothetically) to making HSP the only poker show on TV? What if we simply got rid of all the other shows and put HSP on every week all year round (except maybe during the summer during WSOP)...

I've personally lost all interest in poker on TV, except HSP and the WSOP Main Event...just seeing if anyone has similar thoughts?

-TheMan

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Yes, let's have less poker on TV because you've lost interest. That's smart.

I think what we'd actually prefer is if HSP would simply REPLACE all the other poker shows. Or better yet: Bobby's Room should add hole card cams and broadcast on a tape delay 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Honestly, who wouldn't watch that?

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

I object. IMO, of all televised poker, HSP has the least beneficial impact on poker in general

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Or better yet: Bobby's Room should add hole card cams and broadcast on a tape delay 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Honestly, who wouldn't watch that?

[/ QUOTE ]
This will NEVER happen.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

No way, while every show has its faults, I think more programming is better for the game, not less.

The WPT is great because fish like me aspire to make the "big time" without ever really having a chance. I think the pros would all agree they love people like myself entering into their arena making their game deeper with dead money.

The game needs fish and I think these shows bring them in.

What we need desperately is for online poker to be legalized so the advertising and sponsorship money can support these shows.

Nascar is on tv because of the wide array of sponsorship money available. Golf, NFL, NBA, etc all have these revenue streams to support their games.

Poker is severely crippled because one of it's largest revenue streams cannot buy ad time and therefore support additional and possibly better poker programming.

Additional programming as a result of more advertising revenue trickles down to everyone who plays online because more people will play who will be fish that feed the poker economy.

The UIGA has crushed (and continues to crush) American online poker and that is pretty evident to everyone who is still playing online.

You don't have to watch the shows you don't like. I can't see how you could have a problem with them airing more poker TV if it resulted in more profitable games.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

I haven't had much chance to watch HSP because my cable company doesn't carry GSN. But I've seen a couple episodes, and I really have no desire to watch more. It just doesn't seem important.

Do you think people would rather watch the Superbowl, or a pick-up football game of NFL all-stars? I would much rather watch the Superbowl, because there is history and prestige attached to it, creating much more inherent drama.
Unless people are chasing titles and history, you're not going to attract a mainstream audience. Why would most people care if one poker pro wins some money from another?

Maybe if HSP actually published some sort of "standings" and awarded a "Player of the Year" or something, I would find it more compelling, but there just seems to be no continuity between episodes or anything at stake besides the result of the current hand.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't had much chance to watch HSP because my cable company doesn't carry GSN. But I've seen a couple episodes, and I really have no desire to watch more. It just doesn't seem important.

Do you think people would rather watch the Superbowl, or a pick-up football game of NFL all-stars? I would much rather watch the Superbowl, because there is history and prestige attached to it, creating much more inherent drama.
Unless people are chasing titles and history, you're not going to attract a mainstream audience. Why would most people care if one poker pro wins some money from another?

Maybe if HSP actually published some sort of "standings" and awarded a "Player of the Year" or something, I would find it more compelling, but there just seems to be no continuity between episodes or anything at stake besides the result of the current hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

watching daniel negreanu get crushed is fun IMO...the table talk and general feel of HSP is what makes it much better than most of poker shows ...

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

There are two distinctly different segments of TV poker audiences:

1. The "casual" viewers who are driven by BIG EVENTS, such as the WSOP on ESPN and NBC Heads-Up.

2. The die-hard poker players, many of whom want to watch niche and micro-niche shows such as High Stakes Poker on a digital channel such as GSN. The die-hard audience also consume the "time buys" such as FullTiltPoker.net Aussie Millions on FSN.

There is room for both types of shows in the marketplace.

The "middle" market, which the likes of WPT occupied in the past 2 years, was squeezed by the change in the marketplace.
WPT ended up having to go to GSN for a 40% cut in rights fee because WPT wouldn't have gotten a rights fee from FSN, ESPN, or The Travel Channel.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Wow. You sir, are why the term LOL DONKAMENTS was created. Do you have any idea how infinitely more interesting a cash game is then a tournament, at least strategically? You do realize that tournaments are played with imaginary money, right?

I took the liberty of correcting your post below...

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't had much chance to watch HSP because my cable company doesn't carry GSN. But I've seen a couple episodes, and I really have no desire to watch more. It just doesn't seem important. Because I think Jamie Gold and Chris Moneymaker's victories are very important .

Do you think people would rather watch the Superbowl, or a pick-up football game of NFL all-stars? I would much rather watch the Superbowl, even if everyone playing in the Superbowl weren't actual football players but lucky amateurs off the street because there is history and prestige attached to it, creating much more inherent drama. I mean, the drama involved in a brilliant player like Dmitri Nobles bluffing with fake chips against another genius like George Danzer can't be matched by million dollar pots being played by Barry Greenstein and Doyle Brunson.
Unless people are chasing titles and history, you're not going to attract a mainstream audience of morons who know nothing about poker and just want to see an all-on on every hand . Why would most people care if one poker pro wins some money from another? I'd much rather watch two overly aggressive nobodies battle it out for fake money.

Maybe if HSP actually published some sort of "standings" and awarded a "Player of the Year" or something, I would find it more compelling, because when Tom Schneider finally won Player of the Year in 2007, I nearly shed a tear from how compelling it was but there just seems to be no continuity between episodes or anything at stake besides the result of the current hand. And this last statement shows how much I know about live poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. You sir, are why the term LOL DONKAMENTS was created. Do you have any idea how infinitely more interesting a cash game is then a tournament, at least strategically? You do realize that tournaments are played with imaginary money, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are assuming that the high-stakes "cash" games on High Stakes Poker were actually played with each player's OWN money.

I am aware of at least two instances in which players were allegedly "staked" into High Stakes Poker, with those two players playing with OPM (other people's money).

In one of the two cases, the player (P. H.) actually wrote on his blog that he was being staked.

In the other cash, this particular player, allegedly playing with OPM he was allegedly being staked, was able to execute a stone bluff with nothing more than a gutshot straight draw against another player who was holding a big overpair, forcing the player with the big overpair to lay down the best hand.

High Stakes Poker may have a cash game format, but it is still ultimately a TV show. The cash games on High Stakes Poker are not the same as the cash games played at Bobby's Room at the Bellagio each weekend.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are assuming that the high-stakes "cash" games on High Stakes Poker were actually played with each player's OWN money.
...
High Stakes Poker may have a cash game format, but it is still ultimately a TV show. The cash games on High Stakes Poker are not the same as the cash games played at Bobby's Room at the Bellagio each weekend.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really get why/how you think people being staked on HSP is relevant to the quality or strategy of the game being played...it's still real cash and losing it is not "acceptable" simply because it's not truly yours and it's still a ring game and not a tournament. That aside - I agree that HSP is a TV show and not necessarily "the same" as Bellagio cash games, but if you think that players in Bobby's Room aren't being staked then I have a great bridge in Brooklyn that perhaps you'd be interested in.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. You sir, are why the term LOL DONKAMENTS was created. Do you have any idea how infinitely more interesting a cash game is then a tournament, at least strategically? You do realize that tournaments are played with imaginary money, right?



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't watch poker on TV to learn how to play poker. When I want to improve my own poker game, I read books, I read forums, or I actually go out and play poker. I watch poker on TV to be entertained. And like more people, what I find entertaining are compelling story lines.

I would much prefer to see "big name" players on TV than a bunch of random amateurs that show up on screen once and are never heard from again, because the names I know already have some storyline filled in for me, and I am already emotionally invested in them (for the same reason that people would rather watch a weekly TV show with the same cast than a show that had a completely different cast each time). "Deep stack" poker is also better than "all-in fests" like the WPT because they allow more of a player's personality to shine through through their poker play. On these count, High Stakes Poker has a leg up on some of the other poker shows. I don't want to see all-ins on every hand....I want to see the ebbs and flows of a player's chips stack, and I want to see the drama of more interesting plays that are only possible with larger stacks and deeper betting.

But there also needs to be some continuity and sense of moving the story along. HSP doesn't do this at all...it doesn't even seem to keep track of how much players have won or lost. The hands could be played out of order and it wouldn't make any difference. If asked to describe the "plot" of a HSP episode, you couldn't do it....yet you could describe the "plot" of a movie, or a baseball game, or an episode of WSOP.

I think the WSOP broadcasts do a much better job than any other at creating a good story. Of course, they have a built in advantage of the history behind the event, but ESPN gives viewers both a reason to care about the players and a sense of the overall "WSOP scene".

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

NickMPK,

Basicly everything you say is either wrong or stupid. You are either a bad troll or an idiot.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. You sir, are why the term LOL DONKAMENTS was created. Do you have any idea how infinitely more interesting a cash game is then a tournament, at least strategically? You do realize that tournaments are played with imaginary money, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are assuming that the high-stakes "cash" games on High Stakes Poker were actually played with each player's OWN money.

I am aware of at least two instances in which players were allegedly "staked" into High Stakes Poker, with those two players playing with OPM (other people's money).

In one of the two cases, the player (P. H.) actually wrote on his blog that he was being staked.

In the other cash, this particular player, allegedly playing with OPM he was allegedly being staked, was able to execute a stone bluff with nothing more than a gutshot straight draw against another player who was holding a big overpair, forcing the player with the big overpair to lay down the best hand.

High Stakes Poker may have a cash game format, but it is still ultimately a TV show. The cash games on High Stakes Poker are not the same as the cash games played at Bobby's Room at the Bellagio each weekend.



[/ QUOTE ]

are you even serious?

you think it's only tv shows that poker players are staked by others?

you think there aren't players who play in Bobby's room that are staked?

...

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe if HSP actually published some sort of "standings" and awarded a "Player of the Year" or something, I would find it more compelling, but there just seems to be no continuity between episodes or anything at stake besides the result of the current hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a very good idea. If they showed tallies of how much each player won/lost it would definitely add something to the show. I agree with everyone who says continuity is what the show lacks most.

The best part of the show is the table conversation. I just saw this one episode where after Eli Elezra wins a big hand against I think Barry Greenstein, he calls one of the casino girls "Baby". Doyle says "Baby now...if he had lost the hand it would've been, 'Get away bitch!'" That was hilarious, and so unexpected from Doyle.

[ QUOTE ]
watching daniel negreanu get crushed is fun IMO...

[/ QUOTE ]
This is very true [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But one can watch the clips of that and enjoy it just as much.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't had much chance to watch HSP because my cable company doesn't carry GSN. But I've seen a couple episodes, and I really have no desire to watch more. It just doesn't seem important.

Do you think people would rather watch the Superbowl, or a pick-up football game of NFL all-stars? I would much rather watch the Superbowl, because there is history and prestige attached to it, creating much more inherent drama.
Unless people are chasing titles and history, you're not going to attract a mainstream audience. Why would most people care if one poker pro wins some money from another?

Maybe if HSP actually published some sort of "standings" and awarded a "Player of the Year" or something, I would find it more compelling, but there just seems to be no continuity between episodes or anything at stake besides the result of the current hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I wish that they would be better at keeping us up to date on how people are doing, I laughed when I read the part about it seeming unimportant. It may not be important but either most of the other poker shows on TV.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
put HSP on every week all year round (except maybe during the summer during WSOP)...


[/ QUOTE ]


the WSOP brings poker players/gamblers from all over the world...these two months would be the best time to record/air HSP

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
NickMPK,

Basicly everything you say is either wrong or stupid. You are either a bad troll or an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made your first post in three months for this? Nice job.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
While I wish that they would be better at keeping us up to date on how people are doing, I laughed when I read the part about it seeming unimportant. It may not be important but either most of the other poker shows on TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

(I assume you mean "neither are" rather than "either")

How important a poker tournament is depends on how closely you follow poker. Obviously the Superbowl isn't important to someone who has never heard of American football. My point is at least ESPN does a good job of making their WSOP episodes seem important, by given the viewer sufficient background, scope, and historical context.

And I agree that most poker shows are not important. I don't watch "Poker After Dark" or "Cash Poker" or whatever either.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

I'd put Poker After Dark at #1 as there's very little editing. So many times you see some bizarre play that makes absolutely no sense because the lead up events were cut.

That show and maybe Hip Hop Holdem should stay.


.Z

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

lets just abolish tournaments

(not a level, i really would like this to happen)

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets just abolish tournaments

(not a level, i really would like this to happen)

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

i really enjoy hsp cause we dont see an allin-festival, but true play.
they could at least make the seasons longer.. i mean, 13eps or what it is.. wouldnt be hard to make twice the number of eps.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Once you have read 2+2 for more than 1 hour, you can no longer stand watching tournaments on TV.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets just abolish tournaments

(not a level, i really would like this to happen)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes absolutely no sense. If you don't like tournaments on TV, don't watch them. If you don't like tournaments period, don't play them.

That's your choice, but eliminating tournaments, whether from poker in general or just from TV would be terrible for poker.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

christ maybe if espn actually showed hands of poker instead of lame bios of jerks i dont wanna hear about......

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
christ maybe if espn actually showed hands of poker instead of lame bios of jerks i dont wanna hear about......

[/ QUOTE ]

99killed - if you speak to NickMPK, that's actually what he really loves about poker on TV. All those "great bios" about players he's "emotionally invested in". It makes the poker feel "important". Last year's profile on Micon nearly brought NickMPK to tears.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[
You are assuming that the high-stakes "cash" games on High Stakes Poker were actually played with each player's OWN money.

I am aware of at least two instances in which players were allegedly "staked" into High Stakes Poker, with those two players playing with OPM (other people's money).


[/ QUOTE ]

Oliver,

I would say that every player on HSP is staked in some way or another - even if it's just selling off a piece of themselves to one or more people. When you reach the level where you can play for hundreds of thousands at a shot you learn quickly that the real winners don't play with only their own money - regardless of what the producers for HSP want to admit.

Does this matter to the audience? Not even one iota.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Why does olivert always use players' initials or type out online poker room names in hangman format (ex: F--- T---)?

Just type it out as it should be and save us all from the couple seconds of deciphering, please.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

guys.

some ppl dont like "better" poker. for some, the WSOP events are just fine. for whatever reason, they like X more than they like HSP.

I personally love HSP. But I would never ask for it to replace all poker shows. While I want more HSP (like 30 2hr. episodes would be sexy), killing all poker shows would be dumb.

I like wsop events; it is madness. All these no names have the spotlight on them, the mix of noob vs pro is an interesting dynamic. Many MTT players dont play cash games. With out MTT coverage, we'd never see them.

PAD: seana hiatt + lack of editing = nice alternative.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

Well first of all: Gabe Kaplan >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Norman Chad.

Secondly, how can someone say that there isn't a dynamic and ebb to cash tables? If you can't see what Wasika did to the table he was sitting at then you have basically no clue about poker.

Lastly, as much as I like PAD I can't STAND Shana. She's a complete airhead. If I wanted to waste an hour I would compile a huge list of her moronic interview questions (one sample: "Were you disappointed with how that last hand turned out?" said to Tony G after Ferguson rivered him for all the chips). I will say though that it was HILARIOUS when Phill Hellmuth came by out of the blue and commentated on hands while Shana played with her hair and said "ooooh".

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]


But there also needs to be some continuity and sense of moving the story along. HSP doesn't do this at all...it doesn't even seem to keep track of how much players have won or lost. The hands could be played out of order and it wouldn't make any difference. If asked to describe the "plot" of a HSP episode, you couldn't do it....yet you could describe the "plot" of a movie, or a baseball game, or an episode of WSOP.

I think the WSOP broadcasts do a much better job than any other at creating a good story. Of course, they have a built in advantage of the history behind the event, but ESPN gives viewers both a reason to care about the players and a sense of the overall "WSOP scene".

[/ QUOTE ]

You do not know the storylines b/c u have not watched enough episodes of HSP and you do not follow the poker world closely enough.

I live in las vegas and follow a lot of poker on the internet and know exactly what these guys are talking about, what their financial situations are, and how much their respective win/losses mean to them.

Armed with that sort of information HSP is VERY interesting and by far the best poker tv show.

If you were more knowledgeable on the subject you would find that the arguements that you are making do not hold water.

Finally, I think one main point that you are missing as well is that in poker the stats longterm basically come down to who makes the most money, not who wins some random tournament. So in this respect million dollar swings are very interesting and important.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


But there also needs to be some continuity and sense of moving the story along. HSP doesn't do this at all...it doesn't even seem to keep track of how much players have won or lost. The hands could be played out of order and it wouldn't make any difference. If asked to describe the "plot" of a HSP episode, you couldn't do it....yet you could describe the "plot" of a movie, or a baseball game, or an episode of WSOP.

I think the WSOP broadcasts do a much better job than any other at creating a good story. Of course, they have a built in advantage of the history behind the event, but ESPN gives viewers both a reason to care about the players and a sense of the overall "WSOP scene".

[/ QUOTE ]

You do not know the storylines b/c u have not watched enough episodes of HSP and you do not follow the poker world closely enough.

I live in las vegas and follow a lot of poker on the internet and know exactly what these guys are talking about, what their financial situations are, and how much their respective win/losses mean to them.

Armed with that sort of information HSP is VERY interesting and by far the best poker tv show.

If you were more knowledgeable on the subject you would find that the arguements that you are making do not hold water.

Finally, I think one main point that you are missing as well is that in poker the stats longterm basically come down to who makes the most money, not who wins some random tournament. So in this respect million dollar swings are very interesting and important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hotel Detect - You make some really good points.
NickMPK - Like Hotel says, I think the precious "storylines" you're seeking would be plainly evident if you had any knowledge about the poker world. Watching Doyle berate the table for allowing (perpetually broke) Matusow to play $50k behind after he loaned money to Jamie Gold is a storyline anyone on 2+2 would find unbelieveably interesting. Certainly more interesting than Joe Awada's juggling abilities or how Brandon Cantu spends his afternoons.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

HSP is the only poker show I watch anymore. But this thread is not about why it's the best poker on TV. I guess it's all a joke.

How about let's make the NFL the only football or the different HBO series the only drama on TV. Matter of fact, we should all moved back to Germany in 1942.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

hell i wish i just had the channel hsp is on.. lol

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets just abolish tournaments

(not a level, i really would like this to happen)

[/ QUOTE ]

the cash game economy needs donkament winnars

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


You do not know the storylines b/c u have not watched enough episodes of HSP and you do not follow the poker world closely enough.

I live in las vegas and follow a lot of poker on the internet and know exactly what these guys are talking about, what their financial situations are, and how much their respective win/losses mean to them.

Armed with that sort of information HSP is VERY interesting and by far the best poker tv show.

If you were more knowledgeable on the subject you would find that the arguements that you are making do not hold water.

Finally, I think one main point that you are missing as well is that in poker the stats longterm basically come down to who makes the most money, not who wins some random tournament. So in this respect million dollar swings are very interesting and important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hotel Detect - You make some really good points.
NickMPK - Like Hotel says, I think the precious "storylines" you're seeking would be plainly evident if you had any knowledge about the poker world. Watching Doyle berate the table for allowing (perpetually broke) Matusow to play $50k behind after he loaned money to Jamie Gold is a storyline anyone on 2+2 would find unbelieveably interesting. Certainly more interesting than Joe Awada's juggling abilities or how Brandon Cantu spends his afternoons.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have decent knowledge of the "poker world" (although perhaps not the personal lives of high-stakes players). The stuff you're talking about sound more like gossip, and not something I find particularly interesting.

What I mean by "story line" is the ebb and flow of a tournament leading to the historic moment when a champion is crowned. It is useful to know a little about who the champion is, so the background pieces are a means to this end.

For those of you who say I am not real "poker fan" because I prefer watching tournaments, do you think people who would prefer watch The Masters to a random heads-up match between Tiger and Phil Mickelson are not real golf fans? You'll probably see better golf played in the latter, but the former is what history will remember.

I watch golf because I want to see Tiger win titles....I don't care about his personal life. Similarly, I don't care about Mike Matusow's personal life either...if I watch him, it is because I want him to watch him win titles.

Re: Making HSP the ONLY Poker Show?
 

[ QUOTE ]
HSP is the only poker show I watch anymore. But this thread is not about why it's the best poker on TV. I guess it's all a joke.

How about let's make the NFL the only football or the different HBO series the only drama on TV. Matter of fact, we should all moved back to Germany in 1942.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the very least, I think we could get rid of half of the shows out there...there are THAT many bad poker shows. And we could make HSP a premier show with its own 2 hour time slot.

But hey, isn't the NFL the ONLY football worth watching...what else is there?

-TheMan