Anyone else hate limit?
 

am i the only one who can't stand the variance of limit poker? i feel like an idiot right now. i'm playing 5/10 sh @ party to try to clear this stupid acceler8tor bonus and the variance is just driving me nuts. i usually play strictly no limit and LOVE it because the variance is so small in comparison. at least when i get sucked out on in no-limit i can punish the guy with atrocious pot odds if he wants to hit his 2-outer. here at limit there's almost nothing you can do.

i'm running back to nl, bonus be damned. does anyone else feel this way about limit?

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

No. Limit has far more variance than NL. What else do you call it when you call it when you have 100 BB on AK vs. TT?

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

It's a different set of skills at limit. A suckout or 2 along the way is just part of normal poker operations. Once you really know what you are doing, you are nearly always acting with positive expectation. The money rolls in nice and steady. NL players just get frustrated that they can't push anyone around with their stacks. Again, different skills make a good NL player.

It's all poker though. A really good player excels at both limit AND big bet poker.

In the long run, NL cash games will die out. The fish lose way too fast. Right now there are plenty of new fish to take their place. So it's the golden age right now.

Ultimately you will have to be good at limit poker to survive. Better develop those skills soon.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
am i the only one who can't stand the variance of limit poker? i feel like an idiot right now. i'm playing 5/10 sh @ party to try to clear this stupid acceler8tor bonus and the variance is just driving me nuts. i usually play strictly no limit and LOVE it because the variance is so small in comparison. at least when i get sucked out on in no-limit i can punish the guy with atrocious pot odds if he wants to hit his 2-outer. here at limit there's almost nothing you can do.

i'm running back to nl, bonus be damned. does anyone else feel this way about limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limit sucks.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
at least when i get sucked out on in no-limit i can punish the guy with atrocious pot odds if he wants to hit his 2-outer. here at limit there's almost nothing you can do.


[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I used to play LHE, now I play primarily NLHE. One of the main reasons I switched was variance. It's nice to sit down and know you're going to have a winning session 70% of the time, compared to 55%.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No. Limit has far more variance than NL. What else do you call it when you call it when you have 100 BB on AK vs. TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly cannot understand a single sentence of this post.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The money rolls in nice and steady.

In the long run, NL cash games will die out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you just repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere?

The money rolls in nice and steady at limit? rofl.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to play LHE, now I play primarily NLHE. One of the main reasons I switched was variance. It's nice to sit down and know you're going to have a winning session 70% of the time, compared to 55%.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but it feels more like 85-55% here

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The money rolls in nice and steady.

In the long run, NL cash games will die out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you just repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere?

The money rolls in nice and steady at limit? rofl.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The money rolls in nice and steady at limit? rofl.



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it does. If you know what you're doing.

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

Nice post Marc.

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]


It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.


[/ QUOTE ]
The games won't dry up due to the capped buy-in games and TV.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The money rolls in nice and steady at limit? rofl.



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it does. If you know what you're doing.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Over my last 100k hands, my winrate is 1.97. Zoomed out, the graph looks pretty straight, I guess, but I still win about 50% of my sessions according to PT and I don't think the money rolls in nice and steady.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The money rolls in nice and steady at limit? rofl.



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it does. If you know what you're doing.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Over my last 100k hands, my winrate is 1.97. Zoomed out, the graph looks pretty straight, I guess, but I still win about 50% of my sessions according to PT and I don't think the money rolls in nice and steady.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your likely taking short term results too much into consideration. You don't look at your win % per session. Look at your overall winrate. You can lose more than 50% of your sessions and still be a steadily winning player.

If you make a steady $3k a month in a job where you get $1500 per payday every 2 weeks, or you play cards, break even or lose for 2 weeks, then then next 2 weeks it ends up your up $3k...What's the difference? (just a simplified example, but you get the drift)

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

In limit 60% of the time I win EVERY time.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

No. I Love poker period. Whether I'm playing limit, NL, 6 handed, 10 handed, SnG, Tournament, stud, OH8B, etc..etc.

I have my bad days when I get sucked out and get frustrated...but you can't help laugh and love this game when someone *true story* chases the 4th flush card with only the 2 high flush draw and then raises you on the river...LOL and their hand is good.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] variance. That's why I find shorthanded and heads up limit holdem online so much fun. I'm surprised how many people choose to make a career or serious hobby out of gambling, but hate to gamble.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] variance. That's why I find shorthanded and heads up limit holdem online so much fun. I'm surprised how many people choose to make a career or serious hobby out of gambling, but hate to gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems kind of silly...because I like every other aspect of poker besides variance, and I like the money that I make from it. I'm by nature a fairly risk averse person and I hate gambling in general and variance and losing. But I put up with it because I make money and it's fun

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised how many people choose to make a career or serious hobby out of gambling, but hate to gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was suprised myself. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Zeebo, you are my hero. Nice post.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I NEVER PLAY NL.. I played 18 hands tonight, lost 4k with top set..

Therefore, I hate NL.

Thanks

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I NEVER PLAY NL.. I played 18 hands tonight, lost 2 buy-ins with top set..

Therefore, I hate NL.

And I like to annoy people by cross-posting my bad beat stories.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

They weren't around hardly anywhere other than private games. Not around anything like they are today. However, it's been shown that because of the edge of the better players, worse players will go bust faster.

[ QUOTE ]
WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see that tested. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Takes a bit more than just preflop. Besides, same can be said for N/L if you just play premiums, can't it?

But, yeah, it can be boring. Especially for those that don't know how to watch a hand they're not involved in. But I'll say that many(usually a live player spouting at my table) I hear who champion N/L do so with the reason that they can 'protect' their hands. Which, imo, shows a lack in their games. These tend to be the same guys who will argue that you don't want lots of callers preflop when you have AA.

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

They weren't around hardly anywhere other than private games. Not around anything like they are today. However, it's been shown that because of the edge of the better players, worse players will go bust faster.

[ QUOTE ]
WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see that tested. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Takes a bit more than just preflop. Besides, same can be said for N/L if you just play premiums, can't it?

But, yeah, it can be boring. Especially for those that don't know how to watch a hand they're not involved in. But I'll say that many(usually a live player spouting at my table) I hear who champion N/L do so with the reason that they can 'protect' their hands. Which, imo, shows a lack in their games. These tend to be the same guys who will argue that you don't want lots of callers preflop when you have AA.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

some guys also don't like 30-50k hand breakeven streaks or the aggravation and psychological trauma caused by constant suckouts. it's a matter of preference. i think it's commendable that others can deal with limit, but some of us have a hard time doing that, especially those who want a more consistent form of poker income.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

You say: "When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose"

That just tells me you are a bad limit player. A good limit player wins big over time at a very consistent rate. So, if you are a bad limit player, which you obviously are, don't play limit.

NL games are the creature of a moment. They have only been popular for the past 5 years. They will go away in the next few years.

I actually hope I'm wrong on this, but I'm not. You'll see.

NL has NOT been around since the 1970's. It was always played here and there, but it has only been popular in the last 5 years. You are obviously young and don't know what you are talking about.

You say: "Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart." That must explain why you can't beat it. You must have forgot to bring your pre-flop hand chart.

One thing is true: Limit poker is boring for players who can't beat it. I don't find it boring at all. But I find ALL poker very interesting. Limit, PL, NL, Omaha8, Stud8, it's all good.

Bottom line is a good player should be solid at all games to be able to take advantage of any opportunity.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
some guys also don't like 30-50k hand breakeven streaks or the aggravation and psychological trauma caused by constant suckouts

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both of these are possible in N/L. Though probably not as often as in limit.

There is also something to be said of the psychological trauma of losing a lot of cash in one hand to a major longshot coming in.

b

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, not really. About 5 years ago, when I was in college and learning to play, I would go down to Foxwoods very often. There were never any NL games. Out of the dozens of times I went there, maybe two or three times they got a 5/5 pot limit game (there was no such thing as a "capped buyin" and average stack size would be several thousand dollars). The majority of the poker room (and all the big games) was limit stud and the rest was limit holdem and there was usually one table of limit omaha/8. Sometimes there would be a big mixed game (e.g., 300/600 HOSE).

I played in Atlantic City and Vegas while in college and didn't see any NL. When I played in clubs in New York, there was again a 5/5 PL, but no NL. Really, you only saw NL in tournaments (and side games around big tournaments, I think) and there were a very small number of other games scattered around the US. When I started playing online, there was no NL (or tournaments) at all and really no demand for it because those were such niche games.

This was after Rounders came out, so it is not that. That movie did fuel a ton of interest in poker, but everyone coming in would play limit. It wasn't until the WPT stuff and the rise of capped buyin NL games (I think before this there was one game for a while at Lucky Chances, but that was the only one I know of in the US) that you started seeing people play NL (again, this is not counting tournaments).

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I do. I had to quit Stars even though I was earning a ton of FPPs and VPPs every day. The loss of big pairs to 5/9 offsuits was too much after awhile. I agree that those guys are the big losers over time but they never seem to lose the roll to me.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I agree with you. The inherent artfulness of the NL champions suggest otherwise.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You say: "When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose"

That just tells me you are a bad limit player. A good limit player wins big over time at a very consistent rate. So, if you are a bad limit player, which you obviously are, don't play limit.

NL games are the creature of a moment. They have only been popular for the past 5 years. They will go away in the next few years.

I actually hope I'm wrong on this, but I'm not. You'll see.

NL has NOT been around since the 1970's. It was always played here and there, but it has only been popular in the last 5 years. You are obviously young and don't know what you are talking about.

You say: "Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart." That must explain why you can't beat it. You must have forgot to bring your pre-flop hand chart.

One thing is true: Limit poker is boring for players who can't beat it. I don't find it boring at all. But I find ALL poker very interesting. Limit, PL, NL, Omaha8, Stud8, it's all good.

Bottom line is a good player should be solid at all games to be able to take advantage of any opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]I was, IMO an expert limit player for how many hands I played. I was probably a 2.x bb/100 winner at 5/10 6m before I switched to NL. When I say I only won slightly more often than I lost, that is referring to winning sessions being around 55-60% or so (don't have data on me). I still think I'm probably a winning limit player at 100/200, though I have only played around 8k hands at that level so I can't be too sure. There's definitely a lot I have to learn, but it's just hard and not worth the $ for me; I only learn it to take a day off of NL.

Indeed I am young, however I always remember hearing about Doyle playing NL games all over the place, but he had to travel for them I guess. So yeah I'm wrong there; I knew it wasn't widespread, but I just assumed it was always available.

I hear arguments like "good players should be good at all games for most potential earn". However, after NL dies out (if it ever does), I think THAT will be the time to fully hone my skills in stud, omaha, limit holdem, 2-7 TD, tournaments, etc. I expect the transitions to be easy and I am not worried. Tonight I sat down in a 30/60 omaha 8/b game with 3 full tilt pros (red names) and a 3 other people. The game was very soft imo. Nobody knows how to play poker...even the pros. I've played almost no omaha 8/b before, but still I could see people make crazy mistakes all over the place. The most profitable spots for me will continue to be nl cash games for at least the next year or 2, so I will continue to improve my skills there and continue to get better at it. I will learn other games when I have to; I think that is a good policy. We are no longer in the day where you follow 1 fish around and play any game he wants to play b/c that is your only soft spot. The internet provides a sea of fish. At any given limit for any game, you can find a juicy table in seconds.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[quote
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.


[/ QUOTE ]

The money flows in at 1 BB per hour at live play over time.

Sklansky says he has 6 or 7 winning sessions out of 10, meaning 3 or 4 losing sessions out of 10.

But hey, maybe you are than Sklansky at limit holdem.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I don't hate limit per se. I simply enjoy big bet poker better, for a variety of reasons.

Limit games can be beaten. No limit of the same blind structure can be beaten far more profitably.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't hate limit per se. I simply enjoy big bet poker better, for a variety of reasons.

Limit games can be beaten. No limit of the same blind structure can be beaten far more profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]

It all depends on where the fish are swimming. Right now, they're everywhere and this IS the Golden Age of Poker.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I love limit because people sit at the table and play like it's the NL. When they do that I win.

I'm far from expert but I've played both and to me the two are quite different games. I simply can't play NL the way I play LHE - it just doesn't work.

Seems to me variance would be wider in NL wouldn't it? At the right table there is little "down" for me in LHE. If I'm down it's because I'm at the wrong table, playing wrong, or just not catching cards.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

Oddly enough I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] limit poker &amp; I really dislike No-Limit

I love the fact that in Limit I can flop an underset of KKK to someones AAA; and jam all the way to the river and lose... a few big bets only, not my entire stack.

I love the fact that in Limit I can call down over-aggressive players without major regrets

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

No Limit isn't going anywhere. The games that dried up in the past were not capped buy-in games. As long as cardrooms hold capped buy-in games no-limit is here to stay.

In limit the variance is significantly worse. Whoever says otherwise is simply wrong.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In limit the variance is significantly worse. Whoever says otherwise is simply wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
The variance is larger. That's not the same as worse. IMO, higher variance is better because it is what keeps the games good (bad players run hot and move up; good players bust out or lose their confidence; it makes it harder for people to from their mistakes because the correlation between actions and results is fuzzier).

EDIT: Missed including the word "not" in the second sentence, which is pretty crucial.

Re: Anyone else hate limit?
 

I cut my teeth playing limit, starting at 3/6 and moving up to 10/20. I was reasonably successful, playing a TAGgish game, and just waiting.

NL allows me the freedom to make more moves, play more hands, and get paid off better when I really hit. But...these are all skills I've had to develop after my strictly limit training.

Yet, I don't prefer one to the other, necessarily. I go where the fish are...plain and simple. Right now, all anybody knows is no limit, so that's what I'll play. If it shifts back to limit, then that's fine, too.

Fish are fish, cards are cards, and poker is poker...these things won't change, even if the structures and rules do. People have been gambling for thousands of years, and show no sign of slowing down(the opposite is true, actually). Part of becoming a good player is recognizing where the most money can be made.

So...for that reason...right now...I love NL. Maybe in 5 years, it'll be limit, or stud, or (God help us) Omaha Hi/Lo. It doesn't matter. Every game can be beaten to the point that you can make a profit that is worth having. Else, why would anyone, even the fish, play it?