Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

im playing a little 1-2 today and watch a hand go down. guy on my right bets the turn and lady who has position on him min raises. guy calls.

river check check.

dealer says lets see it. lady says show me your hand. i tell the guy dont turn up your hand you called her. she says no he has to turn up his hand because hes closest to the button and the river went check check. i tell her no shes wrong she made last bet he called, last bettor has to show cards first. after a little banter she shows AK ftw.

she then begins to belittle me saying dont tell me the rules kid. ive been playing for as many years as you have been alive and i live in vegas. its obv her way out in vegas and tells me that even though i was there 2 weeks ago playing in the rio, mgm, and ceasars i was still wrong and have no idea what im talking about. then tells me how online poker is this way as well. (dont know how she has a bankroll cause she was pathetic). so the discussion goes on and on and dealer agrees with her!!!!!! saying that because there was no river action, closest to the button shows cards first. WTF

i obv go up to some floor people and ask them and every single one agrees with me. the dealer, after having a different floor at the table and also reiterating what the other floor had told me still said the floor was wrong! foxwoods dealer school taught them that closest to the button shows first apparently.


dealer > floor obv



cliff notes. old ladies are not smart
and obv foxwoods dealers are still horrible and dont know the rules to the games they deal in.



does anyone actually know of any casinos that do have this rule where closest to button shows first if there is streets with no action.

only time i know this to be true is in limped pots online that are checked all the way down then closest to the button shows.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

worst position shows first.. dealer/lady had it right. you are wrong.

she's right about online poker being that way too.

why use the ambiguous "closest to the button".. why not just say the person with the worst position shows first?

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

yes if its checked through the whole way. but if you bet any street and i call you and we go check check for every other street your cards will come up before mine. i then have the option to show or muck if you have the best hand.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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yes if its checked through the whole way. but if you bet any street and i call you and we go check check for every other street your cards will come up before mine. i then have the option to show or muck if you have the best hand.

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no.. you're absolutely 100% wrong.

edit: just to clarify, i only play on pokerstars.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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yes if its checked through the whole way. but if you bet any street and i call you and we go check check for every other street your cards will come up before mine. i then have the option to show or muck if you have the best hand.

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no.. you're absolutely 100% wrong.

edit: just to clarify, i only play on pokerstars.

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holy [censored] foot in mouth. just looked at a few sites and im actually wrong. wow i feel like a moron.

sorry old lady who was a 70/3/1 fish. you are right. and you too daryn.


any clue to why this is the rule. it would seem to me that the last person to initiate the action should be the one to show first, regardless of checking on latter streets

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

wheres the delete this post button lol [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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wheres the delete this post button lol [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Feel better -- live it varies by card room. In some the last aggressor shows first but most that I have played it is by position.

Foxwoods dealers are really bad tho.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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wheres the delete this post button lol [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Feel better -- live it varies by card room. In some the last aggressor shows first but most that I have played it is by position.

Foxwoods dealers are really bad tho.

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yeah i just always thought it was by last aggressor. and figured with floor saying i was right and dealer saying i was wrong i was obv right since 90% of the dealers there are drooling morans. ive never seen so many people who have to deal with money that can not count.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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any clue to why this is the rule. it would seem to me that the last person to initiate the action should be the one to show first, regardless of checking on latter streets

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Checking is considered an action.

And lol and the first post.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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any clue to why this is the rule. it would seem to me that the last person to initiate the action should be the one to show first, regardless of checking on latter streets

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Checking is considered an action.

And lol and the first post.

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well i actually just tried it on full tilt. posted BB utg

Q2d flop jj2 i bet get called by BB, turn 2 BB bets into me i min raise and calls me. river check check. my cards go up his go into the muck. so apparently thats how it is on FT and i guess since thats where i play thats what im use to seeing and just assumed that was the way it was

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

I don't know what foxwoods rule is but the old lady would be correct in the rooms I have dealt in and played in Vegas.

But more importantly ANY PLAYER WHO GETS UPSET ABOUT THE ORDER THAT HANDS ARE SHOWN IS A NIT!

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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any clue to why this is the rule. it would seem to me that the last person to initiate the action should be the one to show first, regardless of checking on latter streets

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Checking is considered an action.

And lol and the first post.

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It's not that it's action. The rule states "last aggressive action shows first if there is action on the river". A check or call is aggressive. Bets/Raises are.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

stars is the opposite

here the hand histories

FT

Full Tilt Poker Game #3020222746: Table Play Chip 1651 - 5/10 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:45:00 ET - 2007/07/21
Seat 2: gallowaygus (830)
Seat 3: MadiMel (5,170)
Seat 4: chewybelle (3,840)
Seat 5: hero (400)
MadiMel posts the small blind of 5
chewybelle posts the big blind of 10
hero posts 10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [2d Qd]
hero checks
obflash9 sits down
gallowaygus has 15 seconds left to act
obflash9 adds 1,000

hero has 15 seconds left to act
jmlewis3 stands up
jmlewis3 sits down
hero calls 10
jmlewis3 adds 1,000
MadiMel calls 10
*** FLOP *** [Jh 2c Jd]
TN tile man sits down
MadiMel checks
TN tile man adds 1,000
chewybelle checks
jmlewis3 is feeling angry


hero bets 10
MadiMel calls 10

chewybelle has 15 seconds left to act
chewybelle calls 10
*** TURN *** [Jh 2c Jd] [2h]
MadiMel checks

chewybelle bets 90


hero raises to 180
MadiMel folds
chewybelle calls 90

*** RIVER *** [Jh 2c Jd 2h] [Kd]
chewybelle checks
hero checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero shows [2d Qd] a full house, Twos full of Jacks
chewybelle mucks
Hero wins the pot (450) with a full house, Twos full of Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 450 | Rake 0
Board: [Jh 2c Jd 2h Kd]
Seat 2: gallowaygus (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: MadiMel (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: chewybelle (big blind) mucked [Ah Td] - two pair, Jacks and Twos
Seat 5: Hero showed [2d Qd] and won (450) with a full house, Twos full of Jacks

BB is closer to the button and i show first



stars



*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to I H8 River!! [6s 5s]
I H8 River!!: calls 5

hero: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d 5d 6d]
I H8 River!! said, "k"
hero: checks
I H8 River!! said, "my 2 pair is good anyway"
I H8 River!!: bets 10
hero: calls 10
*** TURN *** [7d 5d 6d] [Qh]
hero: checks
I H8 River!!: checks
*** RIVER *** [7d 5d 6d Qh] [Kd]
hero: checks
I H8 River!!: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hero: shows [8c Jh] (high card King)
I H8 River!!: shows [6s 5s] (two pair, Sixes and Fives)
I H8 River!! collected 40 from pot

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

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lurking for 2 and a half years and you use one of your 363 posts for this. congrats, wp.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lurking for 2 and a half years and you use one of your 363 posts for this. congrats, wp.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's right, though

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

if i see something wrong happen that doesnt affect the outcome of the winner or loser it shouldnt matter. when the same scenario comes up and im involved in the hand i would want it ran the correct way.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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any clue to why this is the rule. it would seem to me that the last person to initiate the action should be the one to show first, regardless of checking on latter streets

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This will simplify it...
Dealer burns and turns the river card
You acted first(check)
He acted second(check)
Back to YOU and the next action is to show the hand...and since its your turn( whcih happens to be closest to the button) you show first.
Its simply a disadvantage based on position.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

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Exactly. Not only was he not in the hand, he was loud, rude, insulting and wrong. What a way to go through life.

I don't have much respect for people who "don't know what they don't know". That's a great recipe for staying ignorant.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

I think I remember at the Borgata the ruling is last agressor shows first, so it probably differs by cardroom.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

Yeah I remember arguing confidently with someone about that rule thinking first from the button showed first, but apparently OPs rule applied. I completely forget where it was though. Possibly the Borgata.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

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lurking for 2 and a half years and you use one of your 363 posts for this. congrats, wp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta say it was the best post of the thread.

Arguing with old ladies about the order cards are shown, in a hand you're not in makes baby Sklansky cry.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

Well, let's not forget that the guy who didn't want to show was keeping magical information secret. Surely had he shown first, the fabric of space and time would have started to crumble and we'd all be left weeping in the dark. Thank goodness OP was there to prevent this!

Sorry, these silly showdown standoffs just make me laugh. Regardless of who shows first, it's generally widely accepted everywhere that if you think you have a winner, table the darn thing. You're not as good or special as you think you are. Everybody else wants to move on to the next hand.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you are not in the hand why not just http://ftlpoker.net/images/stfu_penn.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lurking for 2 and a half years and you use one of your 363 posts for this. congrats, wp.

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OP, you've made 4300 posts in 2 and a half years and can't see why you should've stayed out of it? You have no right to go telling someone not to turn his effing hand over. Quit acting like a child.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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i tell the guy dont turn up your hand you called her....

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I love when table coaches are wrong.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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i tell the guy dont turn up your hand you called her....

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I love when table coaches are wrong.

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but i wasnt wrong... it differs between cardroom as you can see from other responses in the post, as well as different online sites having different rules as well.


floor said i was right so guess what i was right.


and to those saying i shouldnt have spoke up, why not. when i am in the hand and it is about to be played out the way where closest to button shows first and thats me and i dont want to then it will just slow the game down more. i lef the table to discuss it with the floor to not slow teh game down. guess i a sematics nit but def not wrong by any means to want the game to play out properly IMO. if you disagree then i respect your opinion.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

The truly disturbing part of this whole thread is that nobody has commented on the fact that the FLOOR apparently agreed with the OP and the dealer told the floor where to go.... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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when i am in the hand...

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You weren't in the hand. Guess what, if people are old enough and responsible enough to gamble, they can be responsible enough to decide if they want to show their hand or not. If you're feeling nice you can inform him of the rule (as you see it) once the hands over.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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The truly disturbing part of this whole thread is that nobody has commented on the fact that the FLOOR apparently agreed with the OP and the dealer told the floor where to go.... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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the FLOOR at Foxwoods are mostly former dealers. They don't know what the ruling is either, because the ruling is always in flux. It depends on who is the floor in your area and what he thinks is the ruling.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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Sorry, these silly showdown standoffs just make me laugh. Regardless of who shows first, it's generally widely accepted everywhere that if you think you have a winner, table the darn thing. You're not as good or special as you think you are. Everybody else wants to move on to the next hand.



[/ QUOTE ]



2X QFMFT !!!!!one!one

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, let's not forget that the guy who didn't want to show was keeping magical information secret. Surely had he shown first, the fabric of space and time would have started to crumble and we'd all be left weeping in the dark. Thank goodness OP was there to prevent this!

Sorry, these silly showdown standoffs just make me laugh. Regardless of who shows first, it's generally widely accepted everywhere that if you think you have a winner, table the darn thing. You're not as good or special as you think you are. Everybody else wants to move on to the next hand.

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Funny you mention this because a near identical situation occured Saturday in my limit game. A annoying guy bet and I called him with Q high. He refused to show his hand ( [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )so I showed him the Queen. He wouldn't muck his hand until I showed him my other card.

5 min later he bets another river and gets called, the caller immediately turned over his middle pair. the idiot stares at the caller's hand for a full 2 min and won't show or muck his own cards.

I asked the dealer if we can start calling clocks on people when the betting is over.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

RR i didnt chime in until after the lady told the other guy he had to turn his hand up. after that is when the disagreement happened. its not like it went c/c and i go SHOW YOUR HAND LADY. she said he had to show his hand for being closest to the button before i even opened my mouth



whoops guess RR deleted his post

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

Again, WHY DO YOU GIVE A [censored]!

MYOFB is the rule of thumb here. Stay out of other peoples pots.

And you weren't right, so stop saying you are just because the floor said so on a bad call.
The fact you left the table to seek out the floor after old lady pwned you is [censored] laughable.
LAUGHABLE!

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

When a new round of betting occurs, all previous rounds of betting are "erased from memory" and that money is just tossed in the pot.

This is why the player first to act on the river always shows first if it goes check/check...

Now if she had raised all-in on the turn and all action was closed until showdown, then she would show first. There were no more betting rounds.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
When a new round of betting occurs, all previous rounds of betting are "erased from memory" and that money is just tossed in the pot.

This is why the player first to act on the river always shows first if it goes check/check...

Now if she had raised all-in on the turn and all action was closed until showdown, then she would show first. There were no more betting rounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i understand this now, before i didnt. however this is not true at all poker rooms, live and online. full tilt is the opposite and last aggressor shows hand first if it is called and checked through any other streets regardless of position. and many have said here that the borgata is the same way as well.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

In this situation I would just flip my cards for a few reasons:

Its 1/2 NL at foxwoods! players arent paying attention to your image anyways so who cares? ( I see this game of chicken about who should show etc all the time)If you have absoute junk it doesnt really matter IMO.

Arguing about this stuff at the table just makes you look nitty.

I always try to give off a care free attitude while playing dont want to piss off the fish IMO.

I know there are rules as to who has to show first for a reason and you shouldnt have to show if you dont want to but when its just c/c on the river its just way to nitty to not just flip them in a fishy game like 1/2 NL IMO.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

Yeah mm. It is good sometimes to show your hand and speed the game up. But if you are up against an angle-shooter, sometimes you have to get tough about the rules.

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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It is good sometimes to show your hand and speed the game up. But if you are up against an angle-shooter, sometimes you have to get tough about the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

What angle is being shot here? "Oh, I see you have the winning hand, therefore..." ...er, what?

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

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[ QUOTE ]
It is good sometimes to show your hand and speed the game up. But if you are up against an angle-shooter, sometimes you have to get tough about the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

What angle is being shot here? "Oh, I see you have the winning hand, therefore..." ...er, what?

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no angle is being shot, its not about that. i have about 1k hours at foxwoods and only about 120k hands online at FTP. but FTP runs their game the way i described so i thought this was the way.

apparently the way i figured it was is the way it is at foxwoods as well because thats what the floor told me

Re: Quick foxwoods dealer venting
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is good sometimes to show your hand and speed the game up. But if you are up against an angle-shooter, sometimes you have to get tough about the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

What angle is being shot here? "Oh, I see you have the winning hand, therefore..." ...er, what?

[/ QUOTE ]


no angle is being shot, its not about that. i have about 1k hours at foxwoods and only about 120k hands online at FTP. but FTP runs their game the way i described so i thought this was the way.

apparently the way i figured it was is the way it is at foxwoods as well because thats what the floor told me

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Most of us don't care if you were right or wrong. You're missing the key point.