NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

I think this is worth breaking off from the existing thread. I was talking to my Dad today and I honestly can't think of a bigger sports story in my lifetime. By comparison, the Vick dog story which was nonstop the last few days pales in comparison in my opinion.

Here's the major sports-related stories that come to mind, in no particular order:

Tyson ear biting
Vick dog fighting
Ben Johnson doping
Pete Rose gambling (I think this obviously is way less significant than the current NBA story)
Bonds/Sosa/McGwire/Canseco "steroid era"
Nancy Kerrigan
OJ Simpson
Magic Johnson with AIDS
Jordan to baseball
Team USA baskeball turning into a joke
Kobe rape case
Tyson rape case
Duke lacrosse rape case

I'm sure there are others I can't think of off the top of my head. And while certainly nothing will get as much press as the OJ case, I am hard pressed to think that any of the things I listed really *should* be bigger, or are more significant than NBA games, including playoff games, having the outcome influenced by an official. The more I think about it, the bigger I think this is.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

The "outcome," in terms of wins and losses, has not yet proven to be influenced. It's more likely to be point shaving (or adding) for spreads, and I doubt he was doing it every game. People should really let the facts come out before you guess as to how big it is.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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The "outcome," in terms of wins and losses, has not yet proven to be influenced. It's more likely to be point shaving (or adding) for spreads, and I doubt he was doing it every game. People should really let the facts come out before you guess as to how big it is.

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Impacting the spread is impacting the outcome.

The feds are involved and are now ready to come public with the story. This is going to get worse before it gets better.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

It's a big story, but I don't know how big it really is in the grand scheme of things. There are several point-shaving scandals that have come and gone over the years involving players. Is this worse than, for example, than Hedake Smith? I dunno. Perhaps. Time will tell how deeply it all ran.

Nevertheless, I think there have been bigger stories - Magic and HIV was pretty big (I think everyone who is around our age remembers exactly where they were when it went down). OJ was even bigger, and more unbelievable (and, for me, far more captivating). The Nancy Kerrigan debacle was truly unbelievable, as well.

This could become truly huge as the facts unfold, especially if the league shows some complicity in the matter.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Ummm, there are plenty of NBA games with point-spreads of 1 or 2 points.
If he is involved with any 1 or 2 point underdog or favorites he is most certainly influencing the outcome.

Or another example: The 3-point favorite is up by 5. The underdog has the ball with 30 seconds left. You think he's going to let them try to score to cut that margin at all?
Any out-of-bounds, contact in the paint, anything vaguely resembling a travel is ALL going to get called just ONE way if he has anything to say about it.


Anyway, to Clark's point:
Yeah, this is probably going to have the biggest impact on sports of any story in recent memory.
The OJ and Nancy Kerrigan stories were actually 'bigger' overall (Kerrigan was talked about on the news and mocked on late-night TV and morning-radio for weeks/months) but neither really affected their sport that much.


This is definitely worse than the Pete Rose scandal and I think will have a greater impact.
Pete Rose did have SOME influence on the games in which he would or would not bet on his team. But, for the most part, it was mostly a story of how he was gambling and getting banned from baseball. Not that he changed the Reds chances of winning the pennant or any individual game THAT drastically.

This ref was directly influencing the outcome of the games via making sure he gave one team the benefit of the calls which is way worse and way scarier.

This is a VERY big deal.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

I'm very interested to see what kind of effects this will have on TV rating/attendance etc. I'm going to guess that it won't have the negative effect that some people seem to think.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

It's huge, but I don't think it's the biggest. If it comes out that there was more than one bad apple, I think it becomes much more serious.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

At least now we can ditch the "David Stern is fixing this game" conspiracy theories for "The mob is fixing this game" conspiracy theories.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

It really isn't that big. It was a small little story at the bottom of the front page of my paper(Washington Times). The thread here has 90 or so replies. The thread on footballguys has around 150 replies. Thats not much attention at all.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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It really isn't that big. It was a small little story at the bottom of the front page of my paper(Washington Times). The thread here has 90 or so replies. The thread on footballguys has around 150 replies. Thats not much attention at all.

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This is only the beginning, you are insane if you don't think this is going to be huge news for months.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Clark was not talking about coverage.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

News like the OJ murder, Kobe rape, and Magic aids impacted and interested non sports fans. They crossed over from sports stories to entertainment stories. I doubt that this one does that.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

This would matter if we were entering Donaghy into the Who's Now competition.

Read his post again:

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And while certainly nothing will get as much press as the OJ case, I am hard pressed to think that any of the things I listed really *should* be bigger, or are more significant than NBA games, including playoff games, having the outcome influenced by an official. The more I think about it, the bigger I think this is.

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Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

I really don't think it's going to be that big a deal, and it probably shouldn't be. It's much more likely to be an isolated incident that had minimal impact than some Black Sox mess.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Assuming it's proven that he fixed a relatively large number of games (and if he started years ago, that's got to be a fair assumption - and forget this "wait 'til the facts come out", just like Vick, he's guilty as sin if the feds are involved. This isn't some clown Duke DA), I'd rank them:

1) OJ Simpson killing ex-wife and her lover (unbelievable from start to jury verdict, massive public impact/awareness)
2) Jordan to baseball (NBA god leaves to become MLB minor leaguer)
3) Kobe rape case (elite NBA player in his prime)
4) NBA ref fixing games for mob/himself
5) Tyson rape case (lower than Kobe because less shocking, obviously)
6) Pete Rose gambling (deserves permanent MLB/HoF ban, but nothing like Black Sox scandal)
7) Nancy Kerrigan getting whacked by opponent's hired thug
8) Vick dog fighting (suspect character to begin with, moves up 3-4 spots if/when Vick does time and has career killed)
9) Tyson ear biting (a little surprising, but hardly out of character)
10) Magic Johnson with AIDS
11) Ben Johnson doping
12) Duke lacrosse rape case
13) Team USA baskeball turning into a joke (no "event", slow process therefore not a big "story")
14) Bonds/Sosa/McGwire/Canseco "steroid era" (low because there was no "event", just a multi-year acceptance that a decade plus of baseball is a joke)

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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No referee, umpire, linesmen or other in-game official has ever been arrested or indicted for game- or match-fixing in the history of the four major sports.


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If Donaghy is arrested, this will be pretty big.

If not, it'll blow over quickly.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

this imo is by far and away the biggest story of those noted for one simple reason, it is a referee involved.

we expect there to be bad apples in the 'player pool'. there are simply too many of them for there not to be.

but for an official to be involved in something like this is mind blowing.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

when the real details come out on this situation it will be a lot bigger than it is right now

if one or more referees show up as being conspirators this will reach catastrophic proportions

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

i think this is going to have the most impact on it's sport of any of the stories mentioned. i think a referee influencing the outcome of games is far more serious than players or even entire teams doing it. if vince carter wants to dog it and throw games so he can get traded, it just reflects badly on vince carter, and his team can make the choice to get rid of him. teams have no recourse to corrupt officials. unless you can prove the corruption, you have to live with officials compromising the competitiveness of the league. corrupt officials destroy the very fabric of the game.

most of the other stories were stories for sensationalistic reasons. oj wasn't making football look bad, he was just making himself look bad.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

"if one or more referees show up as being conspirators this will reach catastrophic proportions"

And one can imagine that the gamblers who got to the ref(s) might also have gotten to, say, a MLB umpire or two. This could indeed be very, very big.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

This obviously should be much bigger than a story about a single player.

A person in this position of power and authority has a much greater impact when they screw up. Both because of the influence they are able to exert over the game and the face that we entrust them to judge the participants, so if we can't trust the referees then that just casts doubt onto everything.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

If anybody involved in this had a brain, then they were only betting/fixing games with large point spreads so that they could avoid suspicion. Plenty of profit to be made from that, and they wouldn't kill the golden goose. I'm going to assume that's what happened until I hear otherwise. In which case the story is not as huge as it looks now.

I wouldn't be overly surprised, however, if it turns out that nobody involved had a brain.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

does this sound wrong to anyone else?


http://www.nba.com/news/stern_statement_070720.html

"We would like to assure our fans that no amount of effort, time or personnel is being spared to assist in this investigation"

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

[ QUOTE ]
this imo is by far and away the biggest story of those noted for one simple reason, it is a referee involved.

we expect there to be bad apples in the 'player pool'. there are simply too many of them for there not to be.

but for an official to be involved in something like this is mind blowing.

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My mind isn't blown because this sort of thing, I think, was inevitable with all the money to be made gambling now. NBA basketball is now a worldwide game, too. You can't really buy off an NBA player because of the big money they make, but you can get to a ref.
The next scandal could involve NCAA refs and players because they make so little. It's happened before. Or, one of those part-time NFL officials.
To me, it's all a matter of the amount to be made gambling and the amount the participants make.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Anyone still like Las Vegas' chances of landing an NBA team? HA HA

I'm actually sad about this because an LV NBA team would be awesome.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Yup. If anything I suspect this practically confirms that LV will not be getting an NBA team in the near future.

Although MAYBE there's a chance Stern lightens up and realizes that most of the sports-betting in the U.S. takes places outside of LV anyway.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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Yup. If anything I suspect this practically confirms that LV will not be getting an NBA team in the near future.

Although MAYBE there's a chance Stern lightens up and realizes that most of the sports-betting in the U.S. takes places outside of LV anyway.

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Sad but true. As if there's any connection between this and Vegas. If Vegas didn't exist, this stuff would obviously still happen. And it's not that the majority of $$'s bet on sports happen in places other than Vegas, it's that maybe as much as freaking 99%+ is bet in places other than Vegas. Vegas is utterly irrelevant. You can't even bet more than like $2k on a regular season game for crying out loud.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

It's not that there's a connection between this and Vegas. It's what Vegas is: a gambling mecca. Appearances count.

On another point, I hear people often say such-and-such game must be clean because the players are making so much money. Hogwash. The more money they make, the more they want to make. The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

exactly.

And I think I'm going to retract my thought of MAYBE Stern could see the big picture on this one because it's such a tough sell to all the people who will automatically mean that this will somehow make it easier and more convenient for big sports-gamblers to rig games.

Stern could conceiveably outline all the different ways this ref was betting on games with illegal mob and bookie stuff out of NYC or wherever and reiterate that this situation has absolutely nothing to do with LV or the legal sports-betting there.

But for many people it would just fall on deaf ears.

It's going to be tough enough for the NBA to gain back their credibility at all.
If somehow an LV team got good and made a run through the playoffs then the speculation that it was somehow 'designed' by the league or by the mob or whoever would just run rampant.

In fact, any LV win or loss would be widely speculated to have been pre-determined.
And god forbid if they miss a couple FT's with 1 second left and trailing by 8 and thus fail to cover the 7 point spread or something totally routine.

Or if LV finishes out of the playoffs and then gets a high pick in the NBA draft-lottery.
"RIGGED!!!!! The NBA is getting paid off by those evil thugs in LV. It's SOOOOO obvious!!!"
"Notice how they got the 3rd pick in the draft because so-and-so is who they really wanted. But giving them the 3rd pick doesn't make it TOO obvious."

blah blah blah.

LV doesn't even have a team and I can already hear the loonies complaining about every little paranoid situation their idiot-minds can dream up.

nope, even with all the reassurances in the world from Stern or anyone else I just think NBA hoops in LV will be too difficult a sell now because it will all be the most gigantic of conspiracy theories every single day even when nothing is happening.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

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I think a broke college player just barely getting by would be far more likely to point-shave for $50k or whatever than some $1-million/yr player who would more easily be able to turn resist such a lure.

Criminals who are broke or have nothing to lose tend to be higher risk-takers in their robbery attempts than rich guys.
This is why (I assume) there aren't many millionaires who go out and rob 7-11 stores.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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Yup. If anything I suspect this practically confirms that LV will not be getting an NBA team in the near future.

Although MAYBE there's a chance Stern lightens up and realizes that most of the sports-betting in the U.S. takes places outside of LV anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad but true. As if there's any connection between this and Vegas. If Vegas didn't exist, this stuff would obviously still happen. And it's not that the majority of $$'s bet on sports happen in places other than Vegas, it's that maybe as much as freaking 99%+ is bet in places other than Vegas. Vegas is utterly irrelevant. You can't even bet more than like $2k on a regular season game for crying out loud.

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Clark - Would I be correct to guess that a lot of illegal sports-betting type stuff and whatever mob type affiliation is based out of NY?
If the group that this ref was dealing with had mostly NY ties then obviously Stern should simply move the Knicks out of NY (unsafe mob-gambling) to LV (safer, regulated gambling).

Think he will listen to that suggestion.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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Yup. If anything I suspect this practically confirms that LV will not be getting an NBA team in the near future.

Although MAYBE there's a chance Stern lightens up and realizes that most of the sports-betting in the U.S. takes places outside of LV anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad but true. As if there's any connection between this and Vegas. If Vegas didn't exist, this stuff would obviously still happen. And it's not that the majority of $$'s bet on sports happen in places other than Vegas, it's that maybe as much as freaking 99%+ is bet in places other than Vegas. Vegas is utterly irrelevant. You can't even bet more than like $2k on a regular season game for crying out loud.

[/ QUOTE ]


Clark - Would I be correct to guess that a lot of illegal sports-betting type stuff and whatever mob type affiliation is based out of NY?
If the group that this ref was dealing with had mostly NY ties then obviously Stern should simply move the Knicks out of NY (unsafe mob-gambling) to LV (safer, regulated gambling).

Think he will listen to that suggestion.

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He'll listen to that suggestion as soon as he decides to stop marketing the NBA overseas where there are tons of legal and regulated sports books that take wagers orders of magnitude larger than anything you can legally bet in Vegas.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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The more money they make, the more they want to make. The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

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I would probably suck someone's dick for $100,000. If I had a million in the bank, I wouldn't.

Disgracing a sport is similar in my mind.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

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Disgracing a sport is similar in my mind.

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wtf?

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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The more money they make, the more they want to make. The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would probably suck someone's dick for $100,000. If I had a million in the bank, I wouldn't.

Disgracing a sport is similar in my mind.

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Disgracing a sport is like sucking dick?

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The more money they make, the more they want to make. The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would probably suck someone's dick for $100,000. If I had a million in the bank, I wouldn't.

Disgracing a sport is similar in my mind.

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The question is, would a guy like KG, with 200 mil in the bank, take a few mil a year pay cut if he gets his dick sucked by every member of the suns organization, namely Robert Sarver?

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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The more money they make, the more they want to make. The idea that a guy making x million will not do something for a quick fifty grand doesn't fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would probably suck someone's dick for $100,000. If I had a million in the bank, I wouldn't.

Disgracing a sport is similar in my mind.

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Disgracing a sport is like sucking dick?

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I'd be just as inclined to suck a dude's dick as I would be to disgrace a team sport by fixing the results.

The point was that I'd be a whole lot less inclined if I was already wealthy - the price for me to do something that disgusting/disgraceful would increase dramatically with my personal wealth. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

I'm not at all a Bill Simmons fanboy. I frequently disagree with his takes and find some of his act a little repetitive. But he wrote a really good column about this.

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

Last year Rick Tocchet a former hockey player and an active assistant coach with the Phoenix Coyotes got arrested for running an illegal sports gambling ring. Wayne Gretzkys wife Janet Jones placed bets with the ring. Jeremy Roenicke also admitted to gambling with the ring.

Any time a professional athlete, coach or referee has links to sports gambling or organized crime, it becomes a big story because the integrity of the sport becomes scrutinized.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2322234

Re: NBA fixing: biggest American sports story in recent memory?
 

lol, so there is such a thing as a lock