Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Tell guys if theres anything else skill gambling games exept poker, is in vegas have good slots? anything else games? which is skill

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

There is a thread literally right under yours that asks the exact same question.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

All gambling games involve some kind of skill.

Just not enough skill to overcome the house advantage.

Even slot's have a MINUTE amount of skill.

But I do find there are some slots that are beatable. TI has them.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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But I do find there are some slots that are beatable. TI has them.

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Have they been left unlocked or something? Tell us more.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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But I do find there are some slots that are beatable. TI has them.

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Have they been left unlocked or something? Tell us more.

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Beatable yes. Enough to make a living NO
And it involves A LOT of STANDING around.

It's a reel slot with a Video bonus.

Hint it's got a big pie on it

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Now i get you - they have it at the Plaza. Thanks.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Now i get you - they have it at the Plaza. Thanks.

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Trust me you ain't gonna get rich doing it but you can make a few bucks here and there.

Actually finding someone dumb enough to stop playing with one pip left to fill in the pie too is not the easiest thing in the world.

But it happens and you can aquire a quite a few beverages waiting for one.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Tell guys if theres anything else skill gambling games exept poker, is in vegas have good slots? anything else games? which is skill

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Define "skill gambling games". Your results are impacted by your decisions for almost all games in a casino, so you could say that almost every game involves skill. It is also true that every game in a casino can be beaten under the right conditions (think match play coupons, triple points, etc). Some games are not beatable under typical conditions, but you can usually lower the house edge if you apply optimal strategy and/or game selection (in the case of slots, etc).

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Try BlackJack

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

video poker is +ev if you play all the simulations and memorize the correct play in each situation. and also you have to take the machines that pay 9/5 flush to striaght, or maybe its sh to flush, i believe its the former. saw some dude on the travel channel.

hence skill=robot

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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video poker is +ev if you play all the simulations and memorize the correct play in each situation. and also you have to take the machines that pay 9/5 flush to striaght, or maybe its sh to flush, i believe its the former. saw some dude on the travel channel.

hence skill=robot

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Levelled or not. You decide.............

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Competition Whack-A-Mole can be very +EV

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Competition Whack-A-Mole can be very +EV

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1) Insert 25cents
2) Whack a mole as fast as you can
3) ??????
4) Profit

NH sir

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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video poker is +ev if you play all the simulations and memorize the correct play in each situation. and also you have to take the machines that pay 9/5 flush to striaght, or maybe its sh to flush, i believe its the former. saw some dude on the travel channel.

hence skill=robot

[/ QUOTE ]

Levelled or not. You decide.............

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isn't video poker beatable if you play it perfectly? I have no idea, but i'd heard it before.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

There are beatable video poker games and unbeatable ones. I know a number of people who have made their living playing video poker for years, and slot machines also. Like anything else, knowledge is power. You may notice that all video poker machines are not the same. There used to be a deuces-wild machine that was beatable with perfect strategy, for instance, not sure if it is still around. Jackpot machines are a common target for pros. Let me give you a simple example:

Let's say there is a hypothetical machine whereby you win the jackpot if three 7's appear and lose otherwise. It costs a dollar to play and there are 20 symbols on each of the three reeels, so the three 7's comes up once every 20*20*20 spins, or once every 8000 spins. If the jackpot is above 8000, it is profitable to play. If it is less than that, it is unprofitable. Every dollar put in raises the jackpot slightly.

Now this is a very simplified example just to show that positive EV situations exist. The sharks wait until the tourists play enough to make the jackpot worth going after, then they jump in. In real life there are many combinations that have different payoffs and calculating positive EV is somewhat more complicated, because you will hit smaller payoffs in addition to jackpots. You must "clock" the wheel, meaning you must determine how many symbols are on each reel and what they are in order to calculate the break-even point.

On video poker jackpot machines there is an ideal strategy to play, and that strategy changes as the jackpot increases. For example (an exaggeration for effect) -- if the jackpot is low, you would never throw away aces and kings, but would draw to the full house. On the other hand, if the jackpot was a billion dollars, you would keep AK suited and toss the other ace and king to draw to the royal because the payoff justifies changing your strategy.

Hope that helps clarigy things.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Could just 1 poster in this thread who is expousing the theory that slots and video poker are beatable (and a skill game) please provide the following:

1 verifiable example of a full-time professional winning slot player with over 3 years full time play (short time +EV on a large jackpot win does not qualify)

and

an explanation of how a pre-programmed machine which returns only 97.5% of turnover by law, to the player (regardless of jackpot amount or number of "pieces of the pie" are filled in on the bonus game) is beatable in the long run.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Umm... VP is beatable.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Could just 1 poster in this thread who is expousing the theory that slots and video poker are beatable (and a skill game) please provide the following:

1 verifiable example of a full-time professional winning slot player with over 3 years full time play (short time +EV on a large jackpot win does not qualify)

and

an explanation of how a pre-programmed machine which returns only 97.5% of turnover by law, to the player (regardless of jackpot amount or number of "pieces of the pie" are filled in on the bonus game) is beatable in the long run.

Thanks in advance.

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One I never said slots are beatable.

Two I said some Slots have +EV situations that are hard to find but are out there.

Three you'll never be able to beat them for a living. So working your 9 to 5 is foreseeable in the future.

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Trust me you ain't gonna get rich doing it but you can make a few bucks here and there.

Actually finding someone dumb enough to stop playing with one pip left to fill in the pie too is not the easiest thing in the world.

But it happens and you can aquire a quite a few beverages waiting for one.



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When I post about +EV video bonuses in slots 1 i'm drinking about 9 white russians. 2) The p;erson playing the pies MAY NEVER GET UP. 3) When I do hit the bonus it might only be for a few coins.

Anyone in the world who thinks modern slots are beatable is a moron. That DOES NOT mean there are not +EV situations avaliable for a savvy and lame person like myself who's more into drinking away my liver than gambling [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Umm... VP is beatable.

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Please explain.......I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

My post was not aimed at you but:

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Two I said some Slots have +EV situations that are hard to find but are out there.

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I know what you are trying to say but, in reality, every single slot or VP machine in the world, is a possible +EV situation at any given time.

I am simply stating that a slot or a VP machine is pre-programmed by law to return less than 100% Return To Player (can usually be anywhere from 80-99% RTP depending on operator and or juristiction). It is mathematically impossible to be a winner on slots or VP in the long run, irrespective or your strategy and/or "skill".

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Umm... VP is beatable.

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Please explain.......I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

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This is really really really obvious if you do a little looking around. For almost the exact same reasons poker is beatable.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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For almost the exact same reasons poker is beatable.


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Tilt. Not even close.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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I am simply stating that a slot or a VP machine is pre-programmed by law to return less than 100% Return To Player (can usually be anywhere from 80-99% RTP depending on operator and or juristiction). It is mathematically impossible to be a winner on slots or VP in the long run, irrespective or your strategy and/or "skill".



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Let's make a deal, I'll give you the name of a person meeting your criteria specified in a prior post and you give me a link to this mythological "law" you seem to believe exists for all video games in the universe. Deal?

Jimbo

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Lets say a video poker player typically goes to vegas for 3 nights and puts $100k coin in on a 9/6 JoB machine (99.5%) that they play nearly perfectly. The casino offers 0.3% cash back, limited RFB with a $100 a day food/beverage credit and $300-500 in free play for the weekend. Does that sound +EV or -EV?

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Try BlackJack

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I thought continuous shuffling machines had completely negated the advantage that card counters had. (There are other methods such as finding a dealer that 'allows' you to see his hole card but leaving that aside.)

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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Lets say a video poker player typically goes to vegas for 3 nights and puts $100k coin in on a 9/6 JoB machine (99.5%) that they play nearly perfectly . The casino offers 0.3% cash back , limited RFB with a $100 a day food/beverage credit and $300-500 in free play for the weekend. Does that sound +EV or -EV?

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What, no blow job and a full day package at the day spa to complete this awesome +EV situation and prove your argument?

What you have here is a promotion. Not an argument for continued +EV on slots. As I clearly stated in a previous post: every single slot or VP machine in the world, is a possible +EV situation at any given time.

The title of the thread is: Anything else gambling skill games?

The answer is not slots.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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I am simply stating that a slot or a VP machine is pre-programmed by law to return less than 100% Return To Player (can usually be anywhere from 80-99% RTP depending on operator and or juristiction). It is mathematically impossible to be a winner on slots or VP in the long run, irrespective or your strategy and/or "skill".



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Let's make a deal, I'll give you the name of a person meeting your criteria specified in a prior post and you give me a link to this mythological "law" you seem to believe exists for all video games in the universe. Deal?

Jimbo

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No Problem, try this:

To save me writing it out, here is a simplest explination I could find for you, taken from Wiki:

Slot machines are typically programmed to pay out as winnings between 82 to 98 percent of the money that is wagered by players. This is known as the "theoretical payout percentage". The minimum theoretical payout percentage varies among jurisdictions and is typically established by law or regulation. For example, the minimum payout percentage in Nevada is 75 percent and in New Jersey is 83 percent. The winning patterns on slot machines, the amounts they pay, and the frequency at which they appear are carefully selected to yield a certain percentage of the cost of play to the "house" (the operator of the slot machine), while returning the rest to the player during play. Suppose that a certain slot machine costs $1 per spin. It can be calculated that over a sufficiently long period, such as 1,000,000 spins, that the machine will return an average of $950,000 to its players, who have inserted $1,000,000 during that time. In this (simplified) example, the slot machine is said to pay out 95%. The operator keeps the remaining $50,000. Within some EGM-development organizations this concept is referred to simply as "par". "Par" also manifests itself to gamblers as promotional techiniques: "Our 'Loose Slots' have a 93% Pay-back! Play now!"
A slot machine's theoretical payout percentage is set at the factory when the software is written. Changing the payout percentages after a slot machine has been placed on the gaming floor requires a physical swap of the software, which is usually stored on an EPROM but may be downloaded to Non-Volatile Random Access Memory (NVRAM) or even stored on CD-ROM or DVD depending on the technological capabilities of the machine and the regulations of the jurisdiction. Based on current technology, this is a time consuming process and as such is done infrequently. In certain jurisdictions, such as New Jersey, the EPROM is sealed with a tamper-evident seal and can only be changed in the presence of Gaming Control Board officials. Other jurisdictions, including Nevada, randomly audit slot machines to ensure that they contain only approved software.
In many markets where central monitoring and control systems (bold wording for my edit to assist the explanation for the unfarmiliar: Central Monitoring and Control Systems means linked directly to the Casino Control Authority/Government Department in any given state) are used to link machines for auditing and security purposes, usually in wide area networks of multiple venues and thousands of machines, player return must usually be changed from a central computer rather than at each individual machine. A range of percentages are preprogrammed into the game software and selected by configuring the machine remotely.)
In 2006, the Nevada Gaming Commission began working with Las Vegas casinos on technology that would allow the casino's slot manager to change the game, the odds, and the payouts remotely via a computer. The change cannot be done instantaneously, but only after the selected machine has been idle for at least four minutes. After the change is made, the machine must be locked to new players for four minutes and display an on-screen message informing potential players that a change is being made.


Here are a selection of laws taken from the Nevada Gaming Control Comission:

Nevada Gaming Control Website

Full definitions and further infringment notices can be found on the website but here are a few selected highlights for non-compliance:

2.010 Changes to payout percentage.
1. The theoretical payback percentage of a gaming device must not be capable of being
changed without making a hardware or software change in the device except as provided for
in Technical Standard 1. For purposes of this standard, the addition of an attendant-paid
bonus, a progressive jackpot, or a change in rate of progression of an existing progressive
jackpot is not considered to be a change in the theoretical payback of the gaming device.
2. Notwithstanding subsection 1, draw poker type gaming devices may have switch
selectable or menu selectable top award values so long as the selectable range does not
alter the payback percentage of the device by more than 1 percent with typical field play.
(Adopted: 9/89. Amended: 11/17/05.)

5.030 Violation of law or regulations. Violation of any provision of the Nevada Gaming
Control Act or of these regulations by a licensee, his agent or employee shall be deemed
contrary to the public health, safety, morals, good order and general welfare of the
inhabitants of the State of Nevada and grounds for suspension or revocation of a license.
Acceptance of a state gaming license or renewal thereof by a licensee constitutes an
agreement on the part of the licensee to be bound by all of the regulations of the commission
as the same now are or may hereafter be amended or promulgated. It is the responsibility of
the licensee to keep himself informed of the content of all such regulations, and ignorance
thereof will not excuse violations.

5.085 Unauthorized games. No licensee shall permit any game other than those
specifically named in the Nevada Gaming Control Act as a “game” or “gambling game” to be
operated without first applying for and receiving permission from the commission to operate
such game and, if permission is granted, thereafter obtaining all required state, county and
city licenses for the same.
(Adopted: 8/61.

Whilst these are Nevada Regs (they also cover a number of other states by agreement) every state that licences slots and VP has exactly the same regulations in place due to taxation laws (the government cant get accurate taxation revenue unless they know exactly how much money has been made).


Now back to that Professional Winning Slot player with over 3 years play?

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

Fine, forget about comps and cashback making -EV machines positive, even though a skilled player (the skill is both in knowing VP strategy and understanding the comp system and how to work it in your favor).

There are a number of straight up positive machines in Vegas. The El Cortez for example has some 100.9% deuces wild and 100.6% jokers wild machine as well as a number of other machines that return greater than 100% with optimal play. All of these machines are $0.25 machines, its only minimum wage with very fast play. There are a lot of these machines at various casinos around Vegas, though not at the major strip properties.

The reason why both the comp scam and positive VP machines exist is because the typical player plays nowhere close to optimal VP strategy and doesn't actually get the maximum theoretical return in the long run.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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For almost the exact same reasons poker is beatable.


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Tilt. Not even close.

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I thought about this after I wrote it, and thought that it could be confusing. I meant that in that not all games are beatable to all players. But in fast there are some poker players that are +EV in all games and some that are -EV in all games. VP for an expert (who just has to follow a strategy albeit complicated at times) is +EV or -EV depending on the situations of the games. Perhaps I should have added a disclaimer similar to the average player or just not used such a stretched example.

Basically some machines exist that are +EV, but the vast majority you just toss in a slot club promo or something else and they move into a good hourly.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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I thought about this after I wrote it ...

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Slots and video gaming are all zero memory strategies. Other than memorizing what the optimal play is in games where you have a decision to make -- the strategy is not dependent on any other factors. So, unlike poker -- it's a single player game. There is no raising, bluffing, or any other strategic signals that can be exploited. VP is like playing pure basic strategy at BJ.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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I thought about this after I wrote it ...

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Slots and video gaming are all zero memory strategies. Other than memorizing what the optimal play is in games where you have a decision to make -- the strategy is not dependent on any other factors. So, unlike poker -- it's a single player game. There is no raising, bluffing, or any other strategic signals that can be exploited. VP is like playing pure basic strategy at BJ.

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Yeah, there were much better examples to be made. Like BJ and most other gambling games. Not all are created equal, which is what I was trying to get across. There are games no one can beat and games that just about anyone willing to pretend to care can beat.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

All those words and still no mention of a law disallowing a payuback over 100%? It is acceptable for you to admit you are wrong but unacceptable to continue to insist you were correct.

Jimbo

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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All those words and still no mention of a law disallowing a payuback over 100%? It is acceptable for you to admit you are wrong but unacceptable to continue to insist you were correct.

Jimbo

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Link pls

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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It is acceptable for you to admit you are wrong but unacceptable to continue to insist you were correct.

Jimbo

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Pot...meet kettle.

1. Re-read your challenge/deal
2. Read my answer
3. Produce winning slot player who fits stated criteria
4. Profit.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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My post was not aimed at you but:

[ QUOTE ]
Two I said some Slots have +EV situations that are hard to find but are out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you are trying to say but, in reality, every single slot or VP machine in the world, is a possible +EV situation at any given time.

I am simply stating that a slot or a VP machine is pre-programmed by law to return less than 100% Return To Player (can usually be anywhere from 80-99% RTP depending on operator and or juristiction). It is mathematically impossible to be a winner on slots or VP in the long run, irrespective or your strategy and/or "skill".

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you're wrong...there are over 100% video poker machines with memorized basic strategy

I have family members that beat those games routinely for fun

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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It is acceptable for you to admit you are wrong but unacceptable to continue to insist you were correct.

Jimbo

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Pot...meet kettle.

1. Re-read your challenge/deal
2. Read my answer
3. Produce winning slot player who fits stated criteria
4. Profit.

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Me, how do you care to pay me? You see your problem? You cannot either prove whether or not I am being truthful or lying but neither can you show me a legal statute supporting your position. You should be more careful in the future when making outrageous claims.


Jimbo

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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you're wrong...there are over 100% video poker machines with memorized basic strategy

I have family members that beat those games routinely for fun

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Obviously as it is this easy, they are thinking about going pro right? After all if you can beat a gambling machine so easy (just for fun) whats stopping them from scooping all this easy cash on a daily basis?

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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You should be more careful in the future when making outrageous claims.


Jimbo

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You mean like this:

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Let's make a deal, I'll give you the name of a person meeting your criteria

Jimbo

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Thanks for the advice.

Metamorphatory vs. Jimbo
 

Metamorphatory vs. Jimbo --

Metamorphatory -- you are pwned.

Re: Anything else gambling skill games?
 

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[ QUOTE ]


you're wrong...there are over 100% video poker machines with memorized basic strategy

I have family members that beat those games routinely for fun

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Obviously as it is this easy, they are thinking about going pro right? After all if you can beat a gambling machine so easy (just for fun) whats stopping them from scooping all this easy cash on a daily basis?

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no....not going pro because it's a miserable lifestyle with high variance for a low (relative) wage


you are seriously retarded dude

I don't care about being nice

you are a moran and your contributions hurt the forum

there are over 100% payback machines
they exist
not many, but they exist
look for them

I know of 4 at the Palms