When to stop?
 

So i've been doing a lot of thinking lately about stop/losses and about when it is right to quit your session even if your way up.

I have always had a 5 buyin stop loss-- meaning I will stop until I have reviewed why i've dropped 5 buyins in a session. After review, if I've been playing B game or better and just running bad, i keep playing, if not I just quit altogether I play really long sessions, usually 3-5k hands. Mostly because I can only play 3-4 days a week.

I think I have lost a ton of $ because I can't seem to know when to quit when i'm way up. When im running good or on a heater I think its going to keep going up and never quit. The problem is I usually drop a buyin or two towards the end of these and theeeen decide to quit. Im sure over my poker career this has cost me a lot of $. How do you all avoid this problem? How do you know when its time to quit a heater and what kind of stop losses do you put on your sessions?

thanks
-dex

Re: When to stop?
 

There is no rule of thumb for when to stop. You have to know yourself and be able to monitor yourself well enough that you can recognize when you aren't playing well. Not playing well is what should decide for you when to stop NOT amount of money won/lost. There are a lot of things that can lower the quality of your play. You might get angry because you took two bad beats in a row. You might feel invincible because you are way ahead and feel you can outplay anyone with 27o. You might be tired. You have to be honest with yourself and recognize when you are making mistakes and have the discipline to take some time off

Re: When to stop?
 

u should never really quit when you're up....unless ur luckboxing ur way to stacks

ur mind should be much more at ease knowing that if u make a +EV move (but get stacked) that u still have profits

Re: When to stop?
 

I use a script to reload automatically, so I don't even know for sure how much I'm up or down (although I usually have a rough idea if I think about it). I play until I'm not sure about what I'm doing, or feel myself getting too tired or distracted. I've never thought that a stop loss based purely on $$ was a good idea (although if you've been taking a beating on a particular table, I think it may be a good idea to leave, based on image if nothing else).

I used to try and keep track of whether I was up or down for a session, and how much, and found that the psychological benefits of booking a positive session (which shouldn't matter, but nevertheless feels good) were outweighed by the negatives of possibly playing catchup when behind and the concentration on my win/loss amount that could be better used to get more reads on players or concentrate on my own play more. It helps that I'm adequately rolled and that I'm a hobby player anyway, so not dependent on any income.

There are several scripts on the software forum that will auto reload for you, and I would suggest playing for a couple weeks without actually knowing how much you're up or down, and see how you like it. Then you could use different criteria for knowing when to stop.

Oh, I almost forgot the most prevalent factor in stopping....when my wife says I've got to stop for the 3rd or 4th time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: When to stop?
 

I went through a period of leaving when I tripled up. Then I thought this was stupid (which I guess it is). But today I was $160 up on $50 and proceeded to lose it all. Times like this when stopping might be sensible. I still don't know though...

Re: When to stop?
 

do any of you stop during a big heater/upswing, even if your playing very well and you have alotted more time to play?

early in my poker career I would be like man, ive won 600 today, thats plenty, time to quit/ go play halo, whatever

now i don't ever get that "i've made enough $ today feeling", I play until I start playing bad or some other external factor makes me quit.

What im saying is I have the discipline to quit when im losing but not when im winning

scenario, say ive played 3.5k hands and im up 8 buyins, im like shipit im playing great. then 200 hands later i finally lose a big pot and im like ok, now i guess i can quit, even though after 3.5k hands i could have easily quit and been up 1 more buyin.

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
u should never really quit when you're up

[/ QUOTE ]

you should if you start getting into sloppy play because you are up

Re: When to stop?
 

I can't really talk for you, but I'll tell you about my experiences.

I tend to know to stop when I become extremely results oriented. For example, say I drop 10-20% (1 or 2 buyins) of my bankroll...if I start freaking out or worrying about the money that I lost when I'm in the middle of hands or important decisions...then I take a break, or quit altogether. If you're playing well, I tend to think there is a reason why: table conditions because of that maniac that's sitting at 3 of your tables. I like to keep good sessions going. However, don't just blindly chug away. After 200-300 hands at one table...players come in and out, and you could easily be sitting at a completely different table than you were. If the reason why you think you're playing well goes away...then change tables or stop playing altogether.

Quitting just because you're up or just because you are down is extremely results oriented. You just need to base that decision on how you've been playing.

If you're making great moves and it feels like you can put everyone on a hand, then go ahead and play some extra hands. But if you start stacking off with TPGK or (insert some fishy thing that you normally don't do), then back off.

Oh yeah, and we've all lost money cause we've stacked off at the end of a session when we're tired and we've lost our discipline. Good discipline makes for a good poker player.

Hope this helps.

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Oh, I almost forgot the most prevalent factor in stopping....when my wife says I've got to stop for the 3rd or 4th time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh duh! How could I forget that one!?

Re: When to stop?
 

I often play til i get even when down and feel i'm playing well. If I start to tilt/run real bad etc i just quit when i feel I'm no longer in the right frame of mind to play well.


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
u should never really quit when you're up

[/ QUOTE ]

you should if you start getting into sloppy play because you are up

[/ QUOTE ]

I have noticed this creeping into my game also, if i do anything sloppy I knuckle back down or quit if I've played a lot of hands.

Feel is the main factor to me in when to stop. I don't have a set no. of buyins but this takes self-discipline and i've been known to tilt/donk off profit when not being honest with myself

Re: When to stop?
 

I rarely stop ... just play play play ... and then play ... usually good idea, sometimes not .. holla !

Re: When to stop?
 

well in poker you have to be somewhat results oriented since we are inevitably all trying to win $

but I am not worried about whether im winning or losing, i never play anywhere near underrolled.

what im searching for is at somepoint during a session where you've been playing well and winning, there has to be something responsible for those extra last 100 hands that always seem to cost you $, regardless of if your down 3 buyins but especially if your up 6-15. how do you identify the point where things are starting to flatten or turn down, and how do you quit?

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I rarely stop ... just play play play ... and then play ... usually good idea, sometimes not .. holla !

[/ QUOTE ]

lol this is me in a nutshell especially the sometimes not part

Re: When to stop?
 

Just make a list of conditions to play under

1. Games are good (normally are at uNL)
2. You are good (not tired/drunk, etc)
3. Tilt factor (this depends on each person individually)

If the games are good, you are ok to play (meaning that you also want to and wont lose focus), and you arent on tilt.. playplayplay

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Oh, I almost forgot the most prevalent factor in stopping....when my wife says I've got to stop for the 3rd or 4th time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh duh! How could I forget that one!?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only get once or twice, but then again I been married for a little less than a month.

Re: When to stop?
 

stop if you feel like your stack at the table is too big to be comfortable for you. if you're scared of playing 250BB pots, yeah, you can probably step away.

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
stop if you feel like your stack at the table is too big to be comfortable for you. if you're scared of playing 250BB pots, yeah, you can probably step away.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol? you should never be playing a limit where your scared to play any pot if you feel confident with your decision.

Re: When to stop?
 

i usually stop playing whenever i start losing focus, or feel like doing somethign else, which is ususally after 45mins-1.5hour or so.

if i feel like im not thinking through situations properly i usually just quite straight away, even if its only been like 10mins.

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Oh, I almost forgot the most prevalent factor in stopping....when my wife says I've got to stop for the 3rd or 4th time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh duh! How could I forget that one!?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only get once or twice, but then again I been married for a little less than a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, wife calling you away from what you're doing could mean a lot better things when you've been married for a month compared to 10+ years with a couple kids....

Re: When to stop?
 

SSDEX...

I kinda know what your feeling. I have felt that way before. I think its almost natural that you run into a hand and it just feels [censored] so you stop. If I have a session of 1k hands and am up 5buyins and I run AA into a set to end it and lose a buyin, I am probably stopping. Just since it just feels dirty. Not so much for losing the buyin, just because mentally I feel like the session is wrapping up anyways.

But each action is independent of the others. That same session ending hand would just start the next one. I believe that it all averages out in the end due to number of hands played.

Personally I just set hand/time goals, and after each period, I will reeval how I am feeling and stop or continue on. That way I get a break after the set time/hands. But if I am feel that tilt/playin bad feeling I hit the main X on fulltilt and then yes to each table to close no matter whats going on. Had to do that last week [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: When to stop?
 

I usually stop when Im busto, but u know, my style isnt for everyone.

Re: When to stop?
 

Oh and if u didnt know, the longer u play, the larger the chance of chips happening. Keep that in mind ;-)

Re: When to stop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So i've been doing a lot of thinking lately about stop/losses and about when it is right to quit your session even if your way up.

I have always had a 5 buyin stop loss-- meaning I will stop until I have reviewed why i've dropped 5 buyins in a session. After review, if I've been playing B game or better and just running bad, i keep playing, if not I just quit altogether I play really long sessions, usually 3-5k hands. Mostly because I can only play 3-4 days a week.

I think I have lost a ton of $ because I can't seem to know when to quit when i'm way up. When im running good or on a heater I think its going to keep going up and never quit. The problem is I usually drop a buyin or two towards the end of these and theeeen decide to quit. Im sure over my poker career this has cost me a lot of $. How do you all avoid this problem? How do you know when its time to quit a heater and what kind of stop losses do you put on your sessions?

thanks
-dex

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had this feeling too. Sometimes you're up a lot and you're like wow, that's a pretty good day and I don't want to ruin my day so you leave and go do something else. It's also very frustrating to be up a lot and have a lot of money at all your tables and then slowly piss it away.

That being said, I don't recommend it stopping when you've reached a certain amount of money for several reasons.

1. You're too focused on how much money you've made and trying to hit your stop point.
2. There are many instances where you'll be 5-10 bucks away then start pushing to hit your goal for the day and stop playing optimally.
3. It's also very frustrating to be close to your goal then taking a huge bad beat.
4. You have a huge psychological advantage when deep.
5. I have to stress this again. If you play any sort of LAG game you have a huge advantage when you're deep. One, you can play very aggressively because people are risking their stacks against you everytime. Two, you can play a looser style which is more effective when you're deep. Three, people are scared of a huge stack on the table. If you're playing 50NL and you have 200 bucks on the table people get intimidated and back down. I force myself to tighten up with 1 buy in and I loosen up to a 24/16/3 style when deep.

As far as stop losses for downswings, I usually stop after 3 buyins. I feel that losing 2 buyins is relatively normal. If I lose 3 buyins or take a huge suckout sometimes I lose it emotionally and start pushing, playing bad, thinking they can't have it again, and proceed to lose more. If I look at a lot of my losing sessions it starts when I take a bad beat, or lose a big pot as a huge favorite and it starts going downhill on all my tables as I try to bluff people off hands more, start spewing, etc.

Re: When to stop?
 

Although I also get the feeling of losing money towards the end of a session, this has to be just an illusion from a rational point of view. I believe our brains confuse cause and effect here. So I think in reality our brains tell us to stop after losing some pots (it's not fun at that moment to play).
While we're winning pots, it's fun and there's no emotional appeal to stop, we're not even thinking about it then most of the time.