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My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Sorry if I repost this. Will try to do a better presentation so I get some more focus. This is my report about 10bb jam/fold-bots on prima/microgaming No Limit Texas Holdem $2.5/5 up to $10/20. At least 6bots have been identified. They all share the same pattern, gameplay and are from the same city Valencia. They buy in for 10bb, pushes preflop, sits out when they double up.
Here is My report I sent to prima one week ago: --------- A brief presentation of myself: 24years old Bachelor degree in Automation and Mechatronical Engineering Played poker fulltime for 2.5years Started with Fixed Limit Texas Holdem(played up to $30/60), now playing No Limit Texas Holdem(up to NL $5-10) Previous experience with bots: Watched the SNG bots on Pokerstars 20+2. Always sit same seat, push for everything -1 chips. Was helping with the discovery of bots on FLT 10/20-30/60 on party about 1year ago. 5second delays, 30/17/1.5, 80% defend bigblind. Made some nice money by playing that bot HU on FLT 10/20. Have watched my friend and his play money bot on Pokerstars. Have some basic programming background. I wrote the AI for a one-slime-bot for a Java Language Programming Project. Place: Microgaming NLT500-NLT2000 Bot names: deilor canichewua piruloo caird vbisk aprilialions How I discovered them: 1. I noted that deilor and canichewua were short stacking. They were the only short stacking grinders in my games at the time. And the only winning shortstackers. 2. I noted that they were from the same city. My conclusion was that they were friends who used the same strategy. 3. I was playing a table with both of them and got the feeling they were colluding. They never played each other in ~60hands, which is nothing out of the ordinary but a bit unlikely. So I emailed prima(25/6) and told them to do a background check on them. Prima have the staff and access to all the data and get paid for this so I thought they should do the job. But nothing happened for 1week and my 7 email got only standard replies. "I dont belive the players in question are bots as there are no bots on the network. Microgaming have procedures in place to detect these. Their behaviour also suggests they are human players." 4. Starting to observe them closer and at one time I was stalking them from table to table just to learn how they were playing. I dont like shortstackers and sometimes when I am bored I like to stalk people I dont like. 5. The breakthrough was when I was observing how many players they need for to post the blind for the first time at a table. There were 3people playing in the hand and canichewua was waiting for the blind. When he got to the blind he sat out. So I sat down on the table. Cannichewua then sits in and waits for the blinds. I decided to not to post and sit out and when he was to post the blind he sat out. I then sat in again and instantly, 0.0seconds delay he sits in. I did this a few times just to be sure. A human who follow a strict game play (which before this new discovery was the most probable explanation) would lag a few seconds but a computer with no delay in that particular function wouldn't. Obviously the bot owner could fix this given the information about how they were discovered but every bot's code will have some flaws in it. This was this particulars bot flaw which made it possible to be detected. The other bots I have observed have had even more obvious flaws. 6. At this point I thought it was a very high probability that they were bots so I checked them even further. I learned how to predict their play. I would amuse myself by writing in the chat what the bot would do. "next hand the bot cannichewua will sit out" "pokermanager, there is a bot on my table, next hand the bot canichewua will sit out". I figured I couldnt exploit them without lowering my original winrate had they been deepstacking I might have considered keeping the discovery to myself and tried to exploit them myself. But the bots were lowering my winrate and damaging the fish pool. The botowners, poker manager, and the other players didnt seem to care very much. I got in touch with some other players at the stake who agreed that they were bots and they email prima but no results. Since Prima didn't remove them I tried to scare them away and to post on 2+2, and was crossposted on pokerforum.nu, two major poker forums. The post didnt get much attention probably beacause it was on a non American network. I hope this thread will get some more attention. 7. I noticed that the bot had bugs. For example it once did a full rebuy to $600 and then the next hand pushed preflop first in for $600. 8. I also learned how to exploit the bots tendencies. For example the bot never calls preflop, so I started minraising it. It would still choose between pushing and folding and pushing. Not adapting and sometimes call preflop. Since it pushed less than 20% in raised pot I made auto money on my minraises. I guess this increases the chances that this is not just a very disciplined group of people from Valencia who playes identical, a group of humans would adapt. I got quite good at estimating the ranges and definiatly had a edge against the bot. However the bot did run very good and got lucky many times so in my database I am only +$200 against the bots. But I guesstimate that in skansklybucks I am up ~$500 against it. It is very hard to effectivly exploit a jam/fold-bot while deepstacking a deepstack game. 9. I also got some respect for the bot owner. The bot was very sophisticated. It would sometimes push a very wide range for example 95o against tight players in the blinds, so I guess it has some Bayesian statistics in its code which I have never seen any other poker bot use before. Maybe the Party FL-bots used it, I am not sure. Or maybe this just was the owner mixing up the bots play. 10. I talked with some other prima players and they added piruloo, caird and vbisk to the list. All of these players are from Valencia and play very similar or identical. 18/7 I added aprilalions to the list, the newest addition to the bot farm. 11. The bot owner seems to know that I like to predicts its play so it has changed the code over the time to make it less detectable. It now will now sometimes play until it doubles up, then sit one extra orbit, then sit out, this one example of its adaptations. I guess soon after this report goes public the botowner will change it and for people who observe the bots will se that the bots play differ from the play in this report. But I have several posters who can verify that my description of the bots play during this period is true. Please do so in this thread if you have played against them. I also think the botowner sometimes play by him self and I guess soon after I post it he will play more by himself. So there will be some problems for people who try to rail the bot which might make my case less believable. Just have this in consideration. Sounds a bit lame when I write this, I know. You should take my report on its own with some salt, but also take the bots action after this report with the same salt and listen to people here who verify my story. 12. Among us bothunters there has been some speculations that __pike__ is the bot owner on the basis that he is from Valencia and plays deep and seems never to play hands against the bots. At the moment we think is unlikely but possible. My recommendations to Prima: 1. Temporarily freeze all the players in my report so they cannot cash out. And watch them for chipdumping. 2. Analyse your data on them and decide if you agree with my conclusions. 3. Check up every poker player on micrograming from Valencia. Then filter everyone who have played NL100-2000 this year. Then check those who are left for shortstacking tendencies. Examine everyone of them. 4. Add shorstacking to your list of suspect behaviour so you can idenify bots quicker in the future. 5. Increase the minimum buyin from 10big blinds to 20big blinds which is the standard on every other major poker network. --------------- So why do I write this. I no longer care about if Prima are able to confiscate their money or they will cash out. If prima does confiscate their money no one of us pokerplayers will benefit anyways. I think its more important in the battle to slow down the bots that information is availible so that more bots can be discovered. The botowners will improve their code no matter what, the most important is that the problems gets more attention. Also I want the bots away. The make the games boring and lowers my winrates. Also they are bad for the reputation of poker. This is my story of me trying to force Prima to remove the bots. I have not been that nice to Prima, in fact I have made some ugly threats about using viral marketing to give them the reputation of being a bot-infested site. But they have ignored me to long so now I make this story public and hopes some action is taken. EDIT: fixed date typo |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
After reading this post, I was completely convinced that you are a Mechanical Engineer.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
I can verify the information. It is very likely that they are bots. The creator is very good however. I feel that this is very much made possible through primas low minimum buy in, which makes it possible to come close to to optimal play through a push/fold strategy.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Your custom title should be "the Anti-Gatorade".
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
After reading this post, I was completely convinced that you are a Mechanical Engineer. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I dont want to sound smart, I just dont want to sound like another "OMG poker is rigged!1!!"-poster. When positing this kind of claims you need to establish yourself as credible. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
roblin,
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. The other bot detector here is an idiot. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
This seems well-researched enough to be pretty easily confirmed. Its dissapointing that Prima doesnt react to this, although I'm not really surprised. Covering up [censored] like this is prolly much more convenient than trying to deal with it.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
The SNG bots weren't on Pokerstars, they were on Party.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Just a lillish q:
Wouldn't it be stupid of the bot owner to not play hands against his own bots, or not have the bots play each other? I mean, the money stays in the family, and not doing this causes suspicion. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
Just a lillish q: Wouldn't it be stupid of the bot owner to not play hands against his own bots, or not have the bots play each other? I mean, the money stays in the family, and not doing this causes suspicion. [/ QUOTE ] plain speculation: its handranges are good for 2way pots. AT vs A9o is not that good vs QJo. might just have been a coincident. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000 *DELETED*
Post deleted by Mike Haven
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
BTW this is one of the reasons why the min buy-ins need to go up at all NL tables. It's almost impossible to write a really good deep stack NL bot, but it is very very easy to write a great short stacking NL bot at < 20 BB or so.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
so you are saying that they bought in 10BB deep and would openshove 30% of their hands to limps, what would they do for raises?
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
BTW this is one of the reasons why the min buy-ins need to go up at all NL tables. It's almost impossible to write a really good deep stack NL bot, but it is very very easy to write a great short stacking NL bot at < 20 BB or so. [/ QUOTE ] 20BB is an entirely different game than 10BB. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
The SNG bots weren't on Pokerstars, they were on Party. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] BTW this is one of the reasons why the min buy-ins need to go up at all NL tables. It's almost impossible to write a really good deep stack NL bot, but it is very very easy to write a great short stacking NL bot at < 20 BB or so. [/ QUOTE ] 20BB is an entirely different game than 10BB. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, a 10 BB bot is a lot easier, but IMHO it would be possible to write a profitable bot at 20 BB (it would be a lot more complex because you have to play the flop, but bots are getting better and better). If the min buying was 40 BB or so, it would be much much harder to write an unexploitable bot. Basically you have 10 BB = preflop only 20 BB = flop play 40 BB = turn play 80 BB = river play |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
roblin, Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. The other bot detector here is an idiot. [/ QUOTE ] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/gatorade.jpg |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Hi there roblin,
I´m from Valencia, and a good friend of all the people you mention, and can assure you they are real people (at least as real as me and you :P). I will pass them this thread and suggest them to reply it. Cheers, Sandokan. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
Hi there roblin, I´m from Valencia, and a good friend of all the people you mention, and can assure you they are real people (at least as real as me and you :P). I will pass them this thread and suggest them to reply it. Cheers, Sandokan. [/ QUOTE ] If this is true I am very sorry for giving false accusation. I have stated why I came to that conclusion and I hope you can understand why I was so convinced and think most people would have come to the same conclusion given my information. I know it is possible I am wrong but I believe that it's very probable that they are bots. Looking forward to hear their side of the story. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
This could get interesting.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
at least I have found prof of one bot:
http://www.purple-lounge.com/Images/...ages/poker.jpg http://www.purple-lounge.com/en/poke...rted/newpl.mth [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Its lovely to know that there is people looking for what new players do. I created a system to play shortstack, and most of my friends are using it. Rigth now, some of them are playing some sits or limit HE at same time they play 10BB NLHE. We are from valencia because they are personal friends of mine, and i achieved to get some non poker players to play poker thanks to that. Im very proud of that because i ve achieved to improve some pleople earnings by a lot and i like to help them.
Some of the reason u said to say they re boots is that the sistem is quite simple. Any player playing shortstack would easily qualify for all those requesites (except the lagg issue, that clearly shows that the human mind sees what he wants to see, because i see they play often and the never stop complaining about the endless unibet lag ,the problems they have when clicking something and the time unibet taked to load. By the way, we do adapt. We make a lot of discussion against many kind of players, but most of my frieds do just play multitable, so it makes it harder for them. I do short stack in NL 4k-20k, and i play limit at some times too. We cant play in the same tables because some of us are linked, and we cant share table. By the way, we OBVIOSLY do change tables when we get more than some amount, do the math and maybe u get to understand it. The thing that is really amazing to me is that u get to describe so much about my system and that u dont get the point on it. And its very methodical just because its a system for people who never played before but also because S short stack NLHE doesnt allow for a lot of things to happen: U just go all in or fold preflop. By the way, havent u ever noticed that they dont all play the same way when on BB and check, or when they get to double or thriple up? Those situations are not fully covered on my system, but my friends do make the plays they think are best. PD: The bot "bug" of rebuying 600 was very funny to watch, when the guy pushed and saw the 500 chip on the table he almost get a hearth attack. By the way, who the hell would make a bot able to play a very complex game properly and unable to make such an easy thing as rebuying withouth mistakes? To add up, shortstacked handed are hated the most. Ur post is not being "rational", its just written because plp hates short stacks. I understand this, because its impossible to properly play against them withouth a very hard analisis and in some situations they will benefit whatever u do. But thats not a problem of my friends or mine. Thats a problem about NLHE (i think NLHE is not a good game. Most NLHE arent so mathematical, so they just cant fight this system. If u havent noticed it, im just a 50 100 and 100 200 limit hold em player, and i love this system because it allows numbers to crush NL players. I ve never writen here before. A friend of mine who holds a website told me that we could have problems because maybe some Unibet security could read u and believe u. My account isnt even listed here, i have to confess im sad to read that. Surely its because i play on the higher limits so i play very few hands, but it still hurted my pride alitle bit. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
It doesn't take much to show that a bot exists. Sit in/Sit Out bugs etc are things that no human could or would possibly match and are extremely damning.
Your like that other clown who had bots and then posted to defend himself. How did you find this thread? Who are these friends? Are we suppose to believe you really have a short stacking army? |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
I'm curious as to your explanation for this (from the OP):
"5. The breakthrough was when I was observing how many players they need for to post the blind for the first time at a table. There were 3people playing in the hand and canichewua was waiting for the blind. When he got to the blind he sat out. So I sat down on the table. Cannichewua then sits in and waits for the blinds. I decided to not to post and sit out and when he was to post the blind he sat out. I then sat in again and instantly, 0.0seconds delay he sits in. I did this a few times just to be sure. A human who follow a strict game play (which before this new discovery was the most probable explanation) would lag a few seconds but a computer with no delay in that particular function wouldn't. Obviously the bot owner could fix this given the information about how they were discovered but every bot's code will have some flaws in it. This was this particulars bot flaw which made it possible to be detected." |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
If you are right, then I am truely sorry for the accusation. PM me your screenname on stars and I will give you $100 you and your team can buy some beers and pizzas for and maybe we can put this behind us and move forward. And I will email microgaming and retract my accusation.
The timing tell might be a just pure accidental. But it happend the 3 diffrent times I observed it and it's not that often that the situation occurs. "The thing that is really amazing to me is that u get to describe so much about my system and that u dont get the point on it. And its very methodical just because its a system for people who never played before but also because S short stack NLHE doesnt allow for a lot of things to happen: U just go all in or fold preflop. By the way, havent u ever noticed that they dont all play the same way when on BB and check, or when they get to double or thriple up? Those situations are not fully covered on my system, but my friends do make the plays they think are best." I have noticed this. The play postflop you do is not very good and I guess poki would play at least as good. So I cannot take this as a counter argument, sorry. One botter could easily have 50bots running and doing all the postflop play himself. I have a good understanding of shortstacked play and I keep the jam/fold-solution for HU play close to hands when I play MTTs/SNG, even though I have a good feeling for what number the chart says for each hand. I have read slotboms books and yeah I perfectly understand why you can make money. "To add up, shortstacked handed are hated the most. Ur post is not being "rational", its just written because plp hates short stacks. I understand this, because its impossible to properly play against them withouth a very hard analisis and in some situations they will benefit whatever u do. But thats not a problem of my friends or mine. Thats a problem about NLHE (i think NLHE is not a good game. Most NLHE arent so mathematical, so they just cant fight this system. If u havent noticed it, im just a 50 100 and 100 200 limit hold em player, and i love this system because it allows numbers to crush NL players." Shortstackers are hated because they ruin the games. You say NLTHE is not a good game. I disagree, but I can agree that 10bb NLTHE is not a very fun game for the fish. I think the minumum buy in should be at least 20bb, but 50bb would be even greater. I respect that you follow the rules, but I dont like that you ruin the games. But the sites are most to blame for making bad rules. Still I think you are very bad for the poker comunity. Also, all your post could be a cover up and your are attacking only some of all my points. And some issuses are still left. Do your friends collude? I have never seen any pot between two players from Valencia. EDIT: typo |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't take much to show that a bot exists. Sit in/Sit Out bugs etc are things that no human could or would possibly match and are extremely damning. Your like that other clown who had bots and then posted to defend himself. How did you find this thread? Who are these friends? Are we suppose to believe you really have a short stacking army? [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. He found this thread because I´ve told him the existence Thremp. Really he gave much more info than I would do, but anyway, I don´t understand people who believes firmly in winning bots, and still play poker. Do you like to be robbed? Is that some kind of masochism? Cheers, Sandokan. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It doesn't take much to show that a bot exists. Sit in/Sit Out bugs etc are things that no human could or would possibly match and are extremely damning. Your like that other clown who had bots and then posted to defend himself. How did you find this thread? Who are these friends? Are we suppose to believe you really have a short stacking army? [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. He found this thread because I´ve told him the existence Thremp. Really he gave much more info than I would do, but anyway, I don´t understand people who believes firmly in winning bots, and still play poker. Do you like to be robbed? Is that some kind of masochism? Cheers, Sandokan. [/ QUOTE ] I believe some of my oppents are winning, still I play. Your argument is stupid. Bots are a real problem and in the end they will ruin Online Real Money Poker. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It doesn't take much to show that a bot exists. Sit in/Sit Out bugs etc are things that no human could or would possibly match and are extremely damning. Your like that other clown who had bots and then posted to defend himself. How did you find this thread? Who are these friends? Are we suppose to believe you really have a short stacking army? [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. He found this thread because I´ve told him the existence Thremp. Really he gave much more info than I would do, but anyway, I don´t understand people who believes firmly in winning bots, and still play poker. Do you like to be robbed? Is that some kind of masochism? Cheers, Sandokan. [/ QUOTE ] No, I play poker with people better than me. I don't like to be cheated which is what the bot operator is doing. Cheating. He should have his accounts frozen, his money taken, and probably his mother beaten for being a bad parent. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
lol the good ol' me and my friends use a system excuse. Works every time.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
I fear ur wrong. They couldnt collude even if they wished because most of them cant play on same tables. By the way, they play 6- 8tables at once and shortstack, so it would be quite hard for them to do it, specially being 5 diferent plp. Still, many plp could be using MSN to speak between them, but its something any friends could be doing and its a very diferent kind of problem noone could never control.
Anyway,I think ur missing the point. A player doenst need to prove he isnt a bot. U havent proved anything aside that we (or they, because i dont really play much since there arent many high stakes tables)play following a system. This is true. They are humans following simple guidelines. Is that cheating? Lately, many players on tables are fooling them around because this post. We dont have much problem with that, we could turn chat off when we wish to, but what about many players complaining to support? What could happen? If Prima get tired of complains, they could "search" for bot activity. They would find the same thing u ve found, people playing using the same system. If they would close the account just based on suspect (and they could) a extremly unfair thing would have happened, and this post would be partially responsable for it. Luckily for me, i know the responsable for the site in Spain and he knows all the players who are playing and even the system they re using, so i dont think we ll be in trouble . Still, u should be carefull in how u throw ur acussations: U need to prove things before making dangerous affirmations against some people, because it could harm them. Indeed, what im doing here is not needed, because i should not need to prove or defend myself against something that is just a "theory", but, as i said, ur theory could bring problems to me or my friends, so i hope u understand that u need not only to "suspect" because more often than not u will be wrong. One last thing: We have had some good laughts with the 600 USD "bug". Id like to point one detail: When u re searching for something (bot activity in this instance) ull take the "absurd" explanation that helps your theory instead of the easy one that goes against it. A human mistake is a much easier way of explaining it, but still u will believe its a bug. PS: We dont play so badly postflop! My pride was hurt for this one too! After all, im a succesful limit player, shortstack should be easy enough :P |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
I have a question, if you are players and not bots.. How come you didn't change your "system" when it was pretty obvious the poster was exploiting your system by miniraising you all the time. Surely any good player would pick up on that..
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question, if you are players and not bots.. How come you didn't change your "system" when it was pretty obvious the poster was exploiting your system by miniraising you all the time. Surely any good player would pick up on that.. [/ QUOTE ] They aren't good players, they are newbies following a very simple system. Plus they play so many tables it's understandable they might not immediately notice one or two players picking on them. Let me emphasize I'm not taking a position in this dispute. I'm just saying this line of argument isn't very convincing. The basic parts of a fish are gills, fins, and not learning from experience. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Hi there! I´m Aprilialions on prima [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I´m one of several people using this fantastic system designed by SirDonald, though I am not one of the 3 that had never seen a poker card in their lives. SirDonald has a brilliant mind, and major achievements in various games including Magic the Gathering (many PT, GP and World Championship money finishes) and competitive online games such as Warcraft (Spanish national team member). His poker achievements are outstanding and he is known and respected in Spain (http://www.raulmestre.com/). He won the “Poker Late Night Aces – Second Season” which is televised in the UK to give u a live play example. He will also be on Spanish television. Additionally, he will publish a book on winning poker strategy very soon for respected poker room Unibet. Do not be surprised if this story is a well known anecdote in a few years. Cracking NL with this system is another major achievement in his poker career. He is also extremely generous. He designed this system in order to help friends that had never played poker out of average jobs. So WE could make money. He hardly uses it, as he makes a lot more playing high stakes limit, in which he is an über-expert. As for us, Deilor and I have around 2 years poker experience, while the others are total newbies. It just shows SirDonalds genius as Canichewua and the others had never played poker and are now making very respectable profits in a completely legal and honest manner. To those who fear collusion, we never play at the same tables. Two shortstackers step on each others toes. Further more, following emails to prima suggesting we were bots, we were no longer able to share tables even if we wanted to. We found that out after joining waiting lists for all tables in a certain limit, being rejected from a certain table, and then realising another one of us was on that table already. This is actually perfect since it completely guarantees you there will never be collusion. I would like to advise against accusing us of being bots without proof. Unibet has proof we are humans. If Prima were to bring libel charges against Roblin or others for false statements such as “Prima is bot infested”, the consequences could be serious. Who knows the damage that has already been done, even in the Prima chat. PD: Roblin, we would like to claim the pizza money :P We invite you to meet us at the Barcelona EPT. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
This is like gold farming in MMOs. =/
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
For what it's worth, these posters are likely to be different people based on their IP's.
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Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
Some editorial comments on the bots issue:
It seems that seeing bots has replaced believing online poker is rigged as an indicator of paranoia. I don't deny bots exist, just point out that what people see is a reflection of how their mind works. Convicting people of botting without the ability to see the evidence (I'm specifically referring to a recent FTP case) is a recipe for false convictions. Remember how WPEX convicted someone of botting, and it turned out he was just using AHK or something? Even in the US legal system, with the right to see evidence and face your accuser, and a nominal "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, false convictions are common. E.g hundreds have been acquitted because of DNA evidence, from the small percentage of where such an acquittal was possible (e.g. still in jail, DNA evidence exists, etc.). |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
To all the Spanish respondents in this thread:
Do you know any of the Spanish shortstackers who mysteriously disappeared from Stars PLO games overnight, despite being winners? If so why did they leave? |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
To all the Spanish respondents in this thread: Do you know any of the Spanish shortstackers who mysteriously disappeared from Stars PLO games overnight, despite being winners? If so why did they leave? [/ QUOTE ] No idea davmcg, I don´t know that history. Cheers, Sandokan. |
Re: My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000
[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, these posters are likely to be different people based on their IP's. [/ QUOTE ] That's not surprising at all. Getting IP addresses that seem completely unrelated is a basic requirement for operating a group of bots. Only an imbecile would operate multiple bot-accounts using a single IP address. I'm sure that when Microgaming investigates they will find each account has its own street address, email, IP address, computer hardware, etc. In essence what we have here is a bunch of friends sharing a simple but effective poker-playing program. The big unsolved question is whether the "computer" running the program is carbon-based or silicon-based. |
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