What else is +EV?
 

Poker can be +EV for a skilled player.

Blackjack can be +EV through a combination of basic strategy and various counting methods.

Roulette is supposed to be +EV if you use some kind of elaborate wheel tracking system. But it seems to me this would be ridiculously easy for a casino to counter just by having a whole bunch of extra wheels and rotating them regularly. So I won't count this.

Are there any other games that are +EV in the long run?

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Ummmmmmmmm Backgammon

Re: What else is +EV?
 

video poker- brag: see avatar for example

sportsbetting

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Definitely sports -- a lot of irrational players. Like poker, it's a waiting game -- unlike poker, there's no bluffs or tells. Pure insight. A lot of opportunities to middle if you have offshore accounts.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Pimping

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Individual slots with accumulating mini-jackpots are +EV (like piggy bankin). But most of these slots have disappeared off of the floor due to people loitering around them waiting for the occupant to leave.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pimping

[/ QUOTE ]

But pimpin' ain't easy.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

A wise man once told me that any game in a casino can be beaten given the right conditions. It is also true that any game could be unbeatable under certain conditions (poker with excessive rake, BJ with poor rules and pen, etc).

You said long run, so the trick then is to find those games that are generally +EV with normal conditions in place today. Short list there. I would say Poker and Sports/Horse Betting for sure, BJ and VP marginally +EV under typical conditions and most other games are typically -EV and only occasionally +EV (Big 6 wheel, slots, etc, etc).

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pimping

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But pimpin' ain't easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but some of us make it look easy. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What else is +EV?
 

craps if you control dice well enough(3-5 individuals in the world who can by my estimate)

Re: What else is +EV?
 

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craps if you control dice well enough(3-5 individuals in the world who can by my estimate)

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??? lol

if you can control dice well enough and for some reason get the pit boss to let you keep rolling?


as for the orig. question? sticking to poker would probably be +ev [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: What else is +EV?
 

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craps if you control dice well enough(3-5 individuals in the world who can by my estimate)

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??? lol

if you can control dice well enough and for some reason get the pit boss to let you keep rolling?


as for the orig. question? sticking to poker would probably be +ev [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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If you can count well enough at blackjack the pit boss will let you keep playing? Obviously not, but craps is different.

It would be like being able to read minds and playing poker... no one is gonna call you out on reading minds cause they'll look like a jackass...

Re: What else is +EV?
 

From what I understand about controlling dice, it takes an extremely long time to master it enough to be +EV. Not only that, but it seems to be a talent, like shooting pool or a basketball, which can be worked on but which not everyone is good at, even with practice. There are countless books about controlling dice, the same as counting cards. Unfortunately, while there may be a few select players around the world who are +EV doing these things, there are millions more who think they are. The casinos have won a lot more off players who think they can control dice or count cards than they have lost to those who can.

In poker and sports betting, you don't have to be better than the house, but you have to be significantly better than the others playing or wagering. Thus, it is more likely to be +EV in these games. However, just like card counting and dice control, a lot more players believe they are winners but are not than are actually winners.

I don't personally believe anyone can learn how to be +EV against the house by reading books, including any of the masses of books in production regarding card counting. Casinos don't like to be beaten and by the time a system is published, it is too late to be used effectively. There is a reason many casinos sell these books in their gift shops.

I don't think it's very common at all for a craps player to be 86ed, except maybe the one or two more famous dice controllers. Casinos realize that it's difficult, if not impossible, for a player to be +EV by controlling dice. Similarily, you will hardly ever hear about a player being removed from a BJ table these days because counting is an old system which has been analyzed and countered by the casinos.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Crazy,

I'd compare dice control to free throws. Almost anyone can shoot free throws at a 90% clip in practice (not exhausted with distractions etc). Its not hard to develop repeatable skills with practice. But yes, some will be better than others. And many overestimate their edge or eff it up. Dice control is still in its infancy compared to card counting etc.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Learning the technique at home may be like shooting free throws, but putting it in practice with all the distractions and harassments at a casino, along with having money at stake, seems like it would be more like shooting under pressure as the clock winds down. This is just speculation, I have never attempted to master the technique. Given my lack of prowess at basketball, perhaps this is a good thing.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Certain pay schedule VP can be +EV.

Progressive video poker when the jackpot is at a certain level. I believe it to be greater than $2200 on max-coin 25c JoB. Also this would apply to other jackpot table games.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

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'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV.

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Nobody likes a nit.

I do agree with your comment, it just seemed very very nittish to me.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

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Pimping

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But pimpin' ain't easy.

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Trust me I know.

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV.

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" 'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'. " not " 'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV. "

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

" 'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'. " not " 'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV. "

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'"'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'.", not "'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV."', not '" 'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'. " not " 'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV. "'

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

" 'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'. " not " 'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV. "

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'"'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'.", not "'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV."', not '" 'Has +EV', not 'is +EV'. " not " 'Has' +EV, not 'is' +EV. "'

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Is not?

Re: What else is +EV?
 

Not is, surely.

That piggy bank slot with the cute piggies is/has/was +EV when the coin bonus hits a certain point. I think it was 25.

In fact any slot with those sort of accumulating bonuses can be a positive game. Even Megabucks (unless you were that 17 year old that hit the jackpot - then it was very negative EV)

Re: What else is +EV?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pimping

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But pimpin' ain't easy.

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Trust me I know.

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You know it's hard out here for a pimp
When he tryin to get this money for the rent
For the Cadillacs and gas money spent
Because a whole lot of bitches talkin [censored]
Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin [censored]