Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

<font color="green"> Current Doctrines:</font>

* God was once a man like us.
* God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
* God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
* God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
* We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
* There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
* Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer") are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father
* Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
* We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
* The "Lord" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim").
* In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.
* Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.
* Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
* The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.
* Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
* Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
* Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
* The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
* If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.

*****

<font color="purple"> Past Doctrines:</font>

- The Adam-God doctrine (Adam is God the Father);
- the United Order (all property of church members is to be held in common, with title in the church);
- Plural Marriage (polygamy; a man must have more than one wife to attain the highest degree of heaven);
- the Curse of Cain (the black race is not entitled to hold God's priesthood because it is cursed; this doctrine was not abandoned until 1978);
- Blood Atonement (some sins - apostasy, adultery, murder, interracial marriage - must be atoned for by the shedding of the sinner's blood, preferably by someone appointed to do so by church authorities);

*****

<font color="red"> Life as a mormon:</font>

You will be continually reminded that to enter the highest degree of heaven (the "Celestial Kingdom"), you will have to go through the endowment ceremony in the temple and have your marriage to your Mormon spouse "sealed." (If your spouse is not Mormon, or if you are not married, you cannot enter the highest degree of heaven.)

You will be expected to donate at least ten percent of your income to the church as tithing. Other donations will be expected as the need arises. You will never see an accounting of how this money is spent, or how much the church receives, or anything at all about its financial condition; the church keeps its finances secret, even from its members.

You will be expected to give up the use of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea.

You will be expected to fulfill any work assignment given to you. Many Mormons find much of their spare time taken up with church work, trying to fulfill the numerous assignments that have been given them.

You will be expected to be unquestioningly obedient to church authorities in whatever they might tell you to do.

You will be advised not to read any material which is "not faith-promoting," that is, which may be critical or questioning of the church or its leaders

You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons.

If you are homosexual, you will be pressured to abandon this "evil" aspect of your nature. If you do not, you will probably not be fully accepted by other church members. If you do not remain celibate, you may be excommunicated.

If you prove yourself to be faithful, hard working and obedient, you will eventually be considered worthy to "receive your endowment" in a Mormon temple. You will not be told in advance exactly what to expect in this lengthy ceremony, except that the details of the ritual are secret. As part of that ceremony you will be required to swear a number of oaths, the penalty for violation of which is no longer stated but until 1990 was death by various bloody methods, such as having your throat slit from ear to ear. You will be given the secret signs and passwords which are required to enter heaven. After receiving the endowment you will be required to wear a special undergarment at all times.

If you should ever decide that you made a mistake in joining the church and then leave it, you will probably find (judging from the experiences of others who have done so) that many of your Mormon friends will abandon and shun you.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

What is there to explain? Pretty much every religion's dogma looks ridiculous to anyone who isn't a member of that religion. Most religions demand all kinds of obedience and sacrifice from followers.

I've heard from a lot of people that it's tough living in heavily Mormon-populated areas if you are not a Mormon, yourself, but my experience has been that Mormons are generally pleasant and seem to really care about the people they serve through their mission work and outreach programs.

SpaceAce

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

allsp.com &gt; season 7 &gt; episode 12 "all about the mormons"

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

What is there to explain?

How do people believe this with all the evidence pointing towards Joseph Smith being a false prophet?

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Multiple versions of the "First Vision"

The "First Vision" story in the form presented to you was unknown until 1838, eighteen years after its alleged occurrence and almost ten years after Smith had begun his missionary efforts. The oldest (but quite different) version of the vision is in Smith's own handwriting, dating from about 1832 (still at least eleven years afterwards)"

In 1828, eight years after he supposedly had been told by God himself to join no church, Smith applied for membership in a local Methodist church. Other members of his family had joined the Presbyterians.

Contemporaries of Smith consistently described him as something of a confidence man, whose chief source of income was hiring out to local farmers to help them find buried treasure by the use of folk magic and "seer stones." Smith was actually tried in 1826 on a charge of moneydigging

The only persons who claimed to have actually seen the gold plates were eleven close friends of Smith (many of them related to each other). Their testimonies are printed in the front of every copy of the Book of Mormon. No disinterested third party was ever allowed to examine them. They were retrieved by the angel at some unrecorded point. Most of the witnesses later abandoned Smith and left his movement. Smith then called them "liars."

Smith produced most of the "translation" not by reading the plates through the Urim and Thummim (described as a pair of sacred spectacles), but by gazing at the same "seer stone" he had used for treasure hunting. He would place the stone into his hat, and then cover his face with it. For much of the time he was dictating, the gold plates were not even present, but in a hiding place.

Joseph Smith claimed God gave him a "gift of translation" regarding the Golden Plates containing the original Book of Mormon. Therefore, by Divine gift and help, Joseph Smith's original translation of the Book of Mormon into English could not contain errors or need further editing or changing.

The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas.

Although Joseph Smith said that God had pronounced the completed translation of the plates as published in 1830 "correct," many changes have been made in later editions. Besides thousands of corrections of poor grammar and awkward wording in the 1830 edition, other changes have been made to reflect subsequent changes in some of the fundamental doctrine of the church

2 most famous (failed) prophecies:
-beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina...war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place...until...a full end of all nations"
-"church, established...upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem...in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri"

Joseph Smith died not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he fired a number of shots. He was in jail at the time, under arrest for having ordered the destruction of a Nauvoo newspaper which dared to print an exposure (which was true) of his secret sexual liaisons. At that time he had announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States, set up a secret government, and secretly had himself crowned "King of the Kingdom of God."

Since the founding of the church down to the present day the church leaders have not hesitated to lie, to falsify documents, to rewrite or suppress history, or to do whatever is necessary to protect the image of the church. Many Mormon historians have been excommunicated from the church for publishing their findings on the truth of Mormon history.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

I would specifically like to hear from presently devoted Mormons and former mormons.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Where did all the current doctrines stuff come from? As a former Mormon I don't recognize the quoted aspects.

[ QUOTE ]

* God was once a man like us.
* God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
* God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
* God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
* We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
* There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
* Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
* We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
* The "Lord" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim").
* Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
* Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
* Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
* The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
* If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.


[/ QUOTE ]

The rest I have at least heard of before.

I am not familiar at all with any of the past doctrines.

As for the Mormon life section, the following are not true(at least in the MD Mormon community):

[ QUOTE ]
You will be expected to fulfill any work assignment given to you. Many Mormons find much of their spare time taken up with church work, trying to fulfill the numerous assignments that have been given them.

You will be expected to be unquestioningly obedient to church authorities in whatever they might tell you to do.

You will be advised not to read any material which is "not faith-promoting," that is, which may be critical or questioning of the church or its leaders

You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons.

If you should ever decide that you made a mistake in joining the church and then leave it, you will probably find (judging from the experiences of others who have done so) that many of your Mormon friends will abandon and shun you.


[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Also the abstaining from coffee, tea, and alcohol parts of Mormon life are merely recommendations that were explained to me as being for health reasons(tanic acid and caffeine in coffee and tea. I believe the alcohol prohibitions stem back to problems with alcoholism among the original Mormons on the cross country journey to Utah.)

And as for this

[ QUOTE ]

If you prove yourself to be faithful, hard working and obedient, you will eventually be considered worthy to "receive your endowment" in a Mormon temple. You will not be told in advance exactly what to expect in this lengthy ceremony, except that the details of the ritual are secret. As part of that ceremony you will be required to swear a number of oaths, the penalty for violation of which is no longer stated but until 1990 was death by various bloody methods, such as having your throat slit from ear to ear. You will be given the secret signs and passwords which are required to enter heaven. After receiving the endowment you will be required to wear a special undergarment at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are temple rituals giving various levels of priesthood with ceremonies I am not familiar with. My understanding of the special undergarments is that they are worn in the temple only.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what led me to leave the church originally 10 years ago.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where did all the current doctrines stuff come from? As a former Mormon I don't recognize the quoted aspects.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you for the reply. I got most of the information here and some other google searches. All the authors sources are cited at the bottom of the link.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

This is a sad day in OOT history.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would specifically like to hear from presently devoted Mormons and former mormons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you are posting on a gambling forum.

Not sure what your point is to list out the doctrines and history of the church and it's founder. You could do the same with every other major religion to pick a fight or snark on their "goofy" beliefs.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Very informative link. I never really studied much of the Book of Mormon outside of what was read to us by missionaries. In my experience the strangest of those doctrines are not discussed or even widely known of. I'll tell you a little about what Mormon church services and life were like for me.

Mormon church services were held Sundays and done in 2-3 parts. First is the actual service which consists of singing of hymns, partaking of the sacrament, discussion of contemporary moral issues, and testimonials where people from the congregation could get up and express what circumstances led to them realizing that the Mormon way was the right way or some other spiritual movement they had felt. After the main service the congregation splits by gender and age.

I only have experience with the young men's group so I cannot speculate on what goes on in the other groups. The young men's groups were broken down with people 11-14 in one group and 14-18 in another. Groups were led by Elders or missionaries from the congregations. Typically we discussed issues of morals, the different levels of the Celestial Kingdom and what the requirements for each are, and did Q&amp;A about church policy, church doctrine, or scripture.

Mormon communities are very close knit. The missionaries, both male and female, try to visit each member once a week or so. Missionaries are typically accompanied on visits by some of the more active men and women in the community. Any time someone in the community needs something, the rest of the congregation knows about it and takes care of the need to the best of their ability.

Monday nights are family home evenings. The church encourages families to get together on Monday nights and read scripture, play games, or just talk together. Many times families will host large gatherings where there are lots of games played, scripture read, and varying levels of discussion.

I quit the church because I couldn't reconcile the historical inaccuracies with the very literal interpretation that the church takes of the Book of Mormon. Later I would begin to doubt all religion as they were corrupt constructs of man and considered myself more a spiritual person than a religious person. Today I consider myself to be agnostic.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

thank you for the reply. I got most of the information here and some other google searches.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't say?

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got most of the information here and some other google searches. All the authors sources are cited at the bottom of the link.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you went to an anti-Mormon website to find out what Mormons believe. Isn't that like going to an anti-gambling website to learn about playing poker?

If you are really interested in a religon's current beliefs then maybe try their website? Just a thought.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

The website he linked to is clearly anti Mormon, but did include direct quotes from scripture and church prophets. I don't believe that the intended meaning was twisted too far in most cases outside the stuff about becoming gods and god residing on a planet far far away.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is there to explain? Pretty much every religion's dogma looks ridiculous to anyone who isn't a member of that religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't have to say "pretty much."

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Read the book "Under the Banner of Heaven". Great read and brings about interesting idea of Mormon Fundamentalism and the polygamy issue.

I think Mormons have many positive characteristic. They are kind, hard working and very faithful people. I think they are misguided, but the average Mormon makes the average Christian looks like a heathen. Then again I am probably seriously misguided as a Christian as well.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think Mormons have many positive characteristic. They are kind, hard working and very faithful people. I think they are misguided, but the average Mormon makes the average Christian looks like a heathen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I forgot to mention this in my earlier post and really wanted to.

I think Mormons are some of the best people on earth. They are generous, hard working, and very kind. They'll give you the shirt off their backs. The have very strong family values and a very strong sense of community. Both are things I think are lacking in today's world. The sense of community is especially nice considering I've seen nothing like it at any church I've been to before or since.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Why do mormons have so many children? Is it just a tradition or does the church urge it's members to produce a lot of mormon offspring?

Also there is no way the religious right will elect mitt romney president of the united states. Baptists etc. look down on mormons for the most part.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do mormons have so many children? Is it just a tradition or does the church urge it's members to produce a lot of mormon offspring?


[/ QUOTE ]

A Mormon I worked with told me it was a responsibility to "Be fruitful and multiply," so I assume they feel that they are supposed to have a lot of kids.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are kind, hard working and very faithful people.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
They are generous, hard working, and very kind.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Bennett Marco: "Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the above, but maybe that's just what they want us to think!! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are really interested in a religon's current beliefs then maybe try their website? Just a thought.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this was funny. So to learn about Scientology we go to their official website? Anyway, I dont see how anyone can still be a Mormon when they realize Smith started it all with his head in a hat reading off glowing plates. dumb, dumb dumb dumb, dumb!

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where did all the current doctrines stuff come from? As a former Mormon I don't recognize the quoted aspects.

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently weren't a Mormon in Utah judging by your post. And I think California, Idaho, Wyoming, and Arizona are probably out of your list of places that you might live (in descending order).


[ QUOTE ]

* God was once a man like us.
* God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
* God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
* God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
* We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
* There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
* Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
* We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
* The "Lord" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim").
* Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
* Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
* Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
* The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
* If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The rest I have at least heard of before.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't heard of these things? It's true that some of them aren't direct scripture, they're quotes or interpretations from the "prophets" [sic]. But some of the stuff like Kolob is scripture. Here is a link to a hymn called "If You Could Hie to Kolob." First a link from the BYU archives: http://tinyurl.com/yt8n9k
And second, the actual lyrics from another site (because the BYU site doesn't have the lyrics themselves: http://www.timesandseasons.org/archives/000530.html

Those beliefs up there are just the start of the kookiness. Ask a Mormon why we have dinosaur fossils on this planet, and they will tell you on no uncertain terms that when Elohim created this world (from the debris and detritus of other planets), other things came along. So dinosaurs never roamed our planet, but they are bones from the dirt from other planets. Elohim was of course a very devout worshipper on his planet and was therefore gifted with this planet to populate with his spirit children (that's why they need all the wives, the more wives, the more children, the larger your planet's starting population).



[ QUOTE ]
I am not familiar at all with any of the past doctrines.

[/ QUOTE ]

The word "past" when it comes to them means less than 20 years in many cases. They have constant reforms. For example, about 10 years ago or less, they stopped with performing the pantomime of cutting their necks from "ear to ear" should they ever speak about temple activities.


[ QUOTE ]
As for the Mormon life section, the following are not true(at least in the MD Mormon community):

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, here you mention where you're from. I imagine things are different in an Eastern state like MD where the Mormons don't have much of a grip. Here in Utah, they run the government, Idaho too. They're working on the other states. The closer you are to SLC, the more hard core your local zealots will be.


[ QUOTE ]
You will be expected to fulfill any work assignment given to you. Many Mormons find much of their spare time taken up with church work, trying to fulfill the numerous assignments that have been given them.

[/ QUOTE ]

They have more activities than their god could do on his "spare time." Not doing them casts you in a negative light.


[ QUOTE ]
You will be expected to be unquestioningly obedient to church authorities in whatever they might tell you to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true in most churches, so you can't really single the Mormons out here. But it's true.


[ QUOTE ]
You will be advised not to read any material which is "not faith-promoting," that is, which may be critical or questioning of the church or its leaders

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, reading these things puts you in a negative light with the church. A friend and I (he is a current Mormon) went to an apologist website to ask some questions about scriptures. Granted, they were difficult questions and the answers might have put the church in a poor light, but rather than answer them, or even allow others to, they banned us within 2 posts. Dissent is not tolerated.


[ QUOTE ]
You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally because "former" Mormons rightly label the faith as a cult.


[ QUOTE ]
If you should ever decide that you made a mistake in joining the church and then leave it, you will probably find (judging from the experiences of others who have done so) that many of your Mormon friends will abandon and shun you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one is pretty constant out here. When you're no longer in the ward, you're no longer part of the fold. They'll certainly try to bring you back "to the fold" by sending out teachers and missionaries to talk to you, but they aren't listening to you or your gripes, they just want you back in church. If you've chosen not to go to church, you're scum. The thing is that even in their scriptures, the Mormons believe that when a person knows the "true" faith, and abandons it, they are unsaveable. When you're ignorant of the "truth" they can just baptise you after death or something (which they do regularly). If you abandon the truth (especially if you were born into it), you're in deep doo-doo.


[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Also the abstaining from coffee, tea, and alcohol parts of Mormon life are merely recommendations that were explained to me as being for health reasons(tanic acid and caffeine in coffee and tea. I believe the alcohol prohibitions stem back to problems with alcoholism among the original Mormons on the cross country journey to Utah.)

[/ QUOTE ]

They aren't "guidelines," they are scripture. They come from Doctrine and Covenant, section 89, found here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89

These aren't words that can be disobeyed as guidelines.


[ QUOTE ]

If you prove yourself to be faithful, hard working and obedient, you will eventually be considered worthy to "receive your endowment" in a Mormon temple. You will not be told in advance exactly what to expect in this lengthy ceremony, except that the details of the ritual are secret. As part of that ceremony you will be required to swear a number of oaths, the penalty for violation of which is no longer stated but until 1990 was death by various bloody methods, such as having your throat slit from ear to ear. You will be given the secret signs and passwords which are required to enter heaven. After receiving the endowment you will be required to wear a special undergarment at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
There are temple rituals giving various levels of priesthood with ceremonies I am not familiar with. My understanding of the special undergarments is that they are worn in the temple only.

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely lived in a "Mormon Lite" type environment. The "Jesus Jammies" (loving title made by a friend) are to be worn at all times for a number of reasons. First, that the cloth is pure and other cloth should not be in contact with your skin. Not only should they be worn at all times, but the church has a special "church approved" method of sexual contact (between a man and a wife only of course) where you don't have to remove your "Jesus Jammies." The other reason is that the fabric is protected by Jesus himself and will keep you safe from harm. The church is abound with "testimonies" (Inigio Montoya moment) about people being "saved" because they were wearing their "Jesus Jammies." Anything from car fires (where all of their body NOT covered was burned) to gunshots. If only the DoD had these things...

The list goes on and on, they really are complete kooks. For disclosure purposes, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of this wacky church. But I do happen to know more about the religion than even their most devout members do, reading does wonders.

Anyone who doesn't think these guys are completely off-the-wall should really take a read of their scriptures, they're fun (and hillarious).

Another thing left unmentioned is that their boys, at age 18 when they graduate high school are expected to go on a mission for 2 years. If they fail to, they won't get a good Mo wife, and will have little chance to advance in the church.

Any other questions, I'll gladly answer.




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

Good grief, there is some horrendous information in this thread.

I'm a Mormon and a returned missionary. While I have NO interest in debating doctrine with anyone (it never does any good in these kinds of forums), I am happy to answer cultural or lifestyle questions. Again, don't bother trying to get me to debate you on historical and doctrinal issues. I don't have the time and I'm never going to intellectually convince you of anything. Stuff is weird in religion, guys -- ask any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, etc.. We all have our "reeaaallllyy?" doctrines.

(By the way, the comments posted about temple garments in this thread are absolutely a hoot. Maybe 10% factual information and 90% complete horsecrap. But, hey, like one of the posters said -- every religion sounds kooky to outsiders.)

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

TS,
Run away. Run away as fast as you can. Trust me, they don't want information.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

What is the story of Joseph Smith? Please go into detail.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

How many wives do you get exactly? I know you tell outsiders 1, but this is the internet, you can level with us.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good grief, there is some horrendous information in this thread.

I'm a Mormon and a returned missionary. While I have NO interest in debating doctrine with anyone (it never does any good in these kinds of forums), I am happy to answer cultural or lifestyle questions. Again, don't bother trying to get me to debate you on historical and doctrinal issues. I don't have the time and I'm never going to intellectually convince you of anything. Stuff is weird in religion, guys -- ask any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, etc.. We all have our "reeaaallllyy?" doctrines.

(By the way, the comments posted about temple garments in this thread are absolutely a hoot. Maybe 10% factual information and 90% complete horsecrap. But, hey, like one of the posters said -- every religion sounds kooky to outsiders.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good post.

The people who think it's the silliest think the exact same thing of every other religion, so it's not like they're singling you out.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many wives do you get exactly? I know you tell outsiders 1, but this is the internet, you can level with us.

[/ QUOTE ]

That depends. If you want to REMAIN a member of the Church itself, then the line is one. If not, take the over.

Personally, I can't imagine having to live with more than one woman. Aside from the obvious upside that all guys would be happy about, is any guy in favor of having more than one woman to deal with? God must have ordered Joseph Smith to actually start the plural marriage thing, because no reasonably self-interested guy would ever think -- "Hey, here's a good idea! Let me get two or more people to snark at me, tell me my faults, and ask me to change diapers!"

I couldn't love my wife anymore than I do (we've been together over 17 years), but she's plenty. One more woman in my life would mean a psych ward visit.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good grief, there is some horrendous information in this thread.

I'm a Mormon and a returned missionary. While I have NO interest in debating doctrine with anyone (it never does any good in these kinds of forums), I am happy to answer cultural or lifestyle questions. Again, don't bother trying to get me to debate you on historical and doctrinal issues. I don't have the time and I'm never going to intellectually convince you of anything. Stuff is weird in religion, guys -- ask any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, etc.. We all have our "reeaaallllyy?" doctrines.

(By the way, the comments posted about temple garments in this thread are absolutely a hoot. Maybe 10% factual information and 90% complete horsecrap. But, hey, like one of the posters said -- every religion sounds kooky to outsiders.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you're so interested in answering questions, can you please tell me which 10% of what I said above was true, and which 90% was "horsecrap?" I don't have any interest in your attempts at conversion either, nor do I have any intention of changing your mind about anything. I just don't take it well when someone says most of what I said is a lie without even differentiating which is which. That's a cop out...

Also, please include your state of residence if you would. I want to know if you're "Mormon" or "Mormon-Lite."




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Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good grief, there is some horrendous information in this thread.

I'm a Mormon and a returned missionary. While I have NO interest in debating doctrine with anyone (it never does any good in these kinds of forums), I am happy to answer cultural or lifestyle questions. Again, don't bother trying to get me to debate you on historical and doctrinal issues. I don't have the time and I'm never going to intellectually convince you of anything. Stuff is weird in religion, guys -- ask any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, etc.. We all have our "reeaaallllyy?" doctrines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not trying to attack you directly, but since you are the only Mormon that I know of that has responded in this thread.. does it not sound absurd that Joseph Smith translated your scriptures by putting his head in a hat with seer plates in it?

I had a Mormon missionary come up to me once on campus. She was real friendly and told her I wasnt interested, but I really wanted to ask her how she could believe the Missouri deal and all the proven unscientific theories that old doctrine had.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Since you're so interested in answering questions, can you please tell me which 10% of what I said above was true, and which 90% was "horsecrap?" I don't have any interest in your attempts at conversion either, nor do I have any intention of changing your mind about anything. I just don't take it well when someone says most of what I said is a lie without even differentiating which is which. That's a cop out...

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a cop out because most of what you said IS true. It's in doctrine. Maybe not taught today but it's there. You can say all religion has some crazy stuff to it or whatever, but goggle and you will see it's not entirely true. First few sites for Scientology are just like Mormonism. What I mean by this is sites showing what they really believe in with sources and proof. You dont see this with Catholicism or Baptists, for example.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You dont see this with Catholicism or Baptists, for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL... Come again? Tell me about virgin birth, creation stories, resurrection and all the other lies that catholics and baptists believe in!

Personally I think another planet being is much more likely than a benevolent god... Ah well, they are all wrong, mormons included!

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL... Come again? Tell me about virgin birth, creation stories, resurrection and all the other lies that catholics and baptists believe in!

[/ QUOTE ]

You completely missed the point. To my knowledge, every Christian religion believes in a virgin birth and resurrection. That's what makes them.. Christian. But with a religion like Mormonism or Scientology, within your top three goggle searches you have entire websites exposing their "true" doctrine and beliefs - the ones not generally talked about and the ones they dont want to discuss with you.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

TS,
Run away. Run away as fast as you can. Trust me, they don't want information.


[/ QUOTE ]

Judging from your performance in my "try to describe a society more evil" thread, YOU'RE the one that doesn't want information.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

i am an "inactive" mormon. so while i am not into the church, i have 18 years of going every week (plus 4 years of seminary) under my belt. if you have questions you can pm me.

First, I would like to say that so much of religious writing (both inside and outside of Christianity) is figurative or at least highly dependent on the context in which it was written. like others have said, you obviously aren't going to get the story by going to an anti site.

i am pretty knowledgeable about the church but there are a couple of doctrine's listed in the OP that i am not familiar with including:


[ QUOTE ]
God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.

[/ QUOTE ]

iirc the first part is common conjecture but has never been revealed as official doctrine. i have never seen reference to the "so holy" bit and i am guessing whatever source material this was taken from was not official or out of context.

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.

[/ QUOTE ]
i don't really remember the answer to this one, but i think it is somewhat miswritten. Reasonably if Jesus was infact a human then he must have been created through means similar to biological ones. ie sperm + egg, 46 chromosomes, and all that jazz. so i *think* standard doctrine is that god the father provided the sperm in some manner, but i don't think i have ever read a source that states that God stuck his penis in her rather than just making her pregnant by virtue of his omnipotence.


[ QUOTE ]
Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.


[/ QUOTE ] this one i have absolutely never heard of, unlike all the others. nothing else to say about that really.

[ QUOTE ]
Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.

[/ QUOTE ] this one is true but i'd just like to say that it doesn't mean that mormons are not supposed to go boating or swimming (though it does mean that for missionaries with few exceptions).


in the past doctrines part, the adam god doctrine and the blood atonement i have also never heard of. i guess it not that unusual to be unfamiliar with old doctrine though, i am sure 95% of catholics have little understanding of their churches past policies.


pretty much everything else i have heard of and could speak to the meaning and implications of the doctrines at least somewhat. so let me know if you have any questions.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

just read the life as a mormon bit. this part of the OP is pretty inaccurate. grossly at times.

particularly [ QUOTE ]
You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons.

[/ QUOTE ]


this *might* be true for individuals who are actively trying to bring down the chruch, the types that make anti-mormon literature/movies but i honestly have never heard it. but for anyone else, this is definitely laugh out loud ridiculous. excommunicated and innactive people are to be actively sought out by the mormon community and anyone who has spent 5 minutes in an LDS church would realize that outsiders are to be brought in and made welcome, not shunned.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

How about baptism for the dead?

Did Elohim come from a planet near Kolob? If so, doesn't it stand to reason that he had a father?

Did Elohim have sex with Mary to produce Jesus? Here is a link explaining it from a Mormon point of view from the Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young (and Brigham Often).
http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_04/refJDvol4-42.html

What is the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom? (Hint: Elohim reached it)

Why are there dinosaur bones on Earth?

Is Joseph Smith a prophet?

Is Joseph Smith going to be at the pedestal to judge me when I die? Equal to Elohim and Jesus?

What color are the most pure spirits from heaven (skin color)?

What happens to black people and native americans when you baptise them and actually get all of their sin cleaned?

What happens when a baby under the age of 8 dies before he can atone for his sins or earn his way into the higher (or highest levels) of heaven?

I can go on for days, let me know when you're tired of questions.

Here is a nice cartoon to explain a whole LOT to people who haven't had much (or any) contact with this church in the past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo




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Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

-Follow,

one at a time please. i am not really interested in writing a book.


anyway, as for the baptism for the dead stuff. its not really that weird. Mormons, like many Christians, believe you have to be baptized to go to heaven (or the higher orders of heaven for the case of mormons). however, many people die without even having the opportunity to be baptized. the solution is that these people are baptized, by proxy, and they then have the ability to accept or reject the baptism in the afterlife.

its really no more unusual than having a proxy take on the sins of the world so that they may go to heaven. of course, to a hardcore atheist who was never a theist, all Christian dogma looks pretty strange.


also, Joseph smith was a prophet and no he will not be sitting in judgment, though he will probably be aware/present of whatever happens as will everyone else in heaven. at least it is my understanding that everything "written in the book of life" will be made public. which was always disconcerting to me personally, i really value my privacy.

Re: Can someone explain Mormon to me?
 

[ QUOTE ]

What happens when a baby under the age of 8 dies before he can atone for his sins or earn his way into the higher (or highest levels) of heaven?


[/ QUOTE ]


these are automatic celestial kingdom candidates (the highest kingdom). the standard mormon belief is that these individuals have already proven themselves worthy of the celestial kingdom in the pre-earth life and thus just had to come to earth to get a body. since they never had a chance to sin, they have no idea for baptism (i am pretty sure). anyway, the long and the short of it is that when people die young they are righteous souls and will be going to heaven. which as many can imagine, is really comforting for the families involved.