1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

Folded to me in SB A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. First hand I have ever played with big blind his first hand at table. Raise preflop.

Flop 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet he calls Turn A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet he reraises I call river J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check he bets...What do I do?

Board J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Any help with any part of the hand

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

I don't mind your play on any of the streets. His reraise on the turn tells me he either made 2 pair, or hit the flush. I'm not sure what you can beat here. His range is so wide in the BB that I'd save a bet and fold. BUT, since this is his first hand you MAY want to call him down just to get a line on his play.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

it's a raise.. a raise. a reraise requires a raise first. there is a big difference between a raise and a reraise. thank you.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

Thanks genius...sorry. But I appreciate your post having nothing to do with the OP's question. Keep trolling!!

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

I RERAISE

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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it's a raise.. a raise. a reraise requires a raise first. there is a big difference between a raise and a reraise. thank you.

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Daryn's right. It's not too much to ask to understand basic [censored] poker terminology when posting a 1/2 hand.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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I RERAISE

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obv you reraise... i bet, didn't i? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

Fold or you won't be a thousand air much longer.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

u prolly have to give tendencies of the player to get a good read

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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u prolly have to give tendencies of the player to get a good read

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Its his first hand at the table... as such, I'd say you gotta fold unless he's giving off some very strong appearance tell suggesting bluffiness

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

1000air, stick to live tourneys u donkey, i played 10-20 with u for a while and u belong back down there

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

Alright I bet the turn and he raised me.

The problem was I didn't know that I was playing with a thinking player. If I knew that the hand is easy and go into call down mode. I can't see putting in a reraise in on the turn. Bottom line I got out played he showed me the old 2 4.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

Owned...

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

you should bet the river

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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you should bet the river

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Really? YOu think that many players will call with weaker pairs here? I don't think they'd often fold better hands for 1 bet on the river, would they?

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

clarkmeister theorem

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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clarkmeister theorem

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Oh yeah, its been a while since I've played a lot of limit, sorta forgot about that one... is that still accepted to be correct regardless of what we hold? B/c here it doesn't seem like there's a much of a point to betting. Am I underestimating the amount that our oppenent pays off w/ weaker pairs here?

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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1000air, stick to live tourneys u donkey, i played 10-20 with u for a while and u belong back down there

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i agree with this so much, maybe 5-10 w/kill

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
clarkmeister theorem

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Oh yeah, its been a while since I've played a lot of limit, sorta forgot about that one... is that still accepted to be correct regardless of what we hold? B/c here it doesn't seem like there's a much of a point to betting. Am I underestimating the amount that our oppenent pays off w/ weaker pairs here?

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Um, that's not the point of Clarkmeister's Theorem (a brief summary of which might be: When first to act OOP on the river on a four flush, non-paired board, always bet.) This puts the villain to a decision, and may cause him to fold the winning hand some portion of the time. You are trying to get him to fold hands that tie or beat us, specifically a same or better A, etc.

It also makes it safe for us to fold to a re-raise...unless he's a crafty, thinking player who is ALSO aware of this move, in which case we open ourselves up to being leveled. So Rowboat's Corollary to Clarkmeister's Theorem is that in the absence of any other information, the honesty of an opponent's raise following our river bet is inversely proportional to his ability to put us on this play. Stated differently, if he knows we will always fire a bet in this spot -- or even worse, that we will only bet in this spot *without* a diamond - and we will only call a raise with a diamond, or a high diamond, or the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], he can raise our bet with impunity. So one needs to apply Clarkmeister's Theorem in a balanced way, especially in a game with thinking players who are very familiar with it, or one will lose more by applying it than one would lose by simply c/c.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

i think u can safely fold the RIVER...there is NOTHING u can beat on the river besides an outright bluff and i dont see that happening because he may have been SEMI bluffing at pot on TURN and got there on river with a small pair with a diamond in his hand or no diamond and 2 pairs.....

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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Owned...

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please tell me it was you dave?


if so i ask him if he minds if we put it AI and run it twice [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

as for the hand i prob call down about 80% of the time unless hes a nit

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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i think u can safely fold the RIVER...there is NOTHING u can beat on the river besides an outright bluff and i dont see that happening because he may have been SEMI bluffing at pot on TURN and got there on river with a small pair with a diamond in his hand or no diamond and 2 pairs.....

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I think this is totally correct, ESPECIALLY because you are in the mixed game playing limit HE at foxwoods. The mixed game players there are not limit HE players, and in fact almost no one at foxwoods is. Thus it's REALLY likey that the above analysis is right on the mark. The chance of you running into no hand/almost no draw/raise on the turn is extraordinarily slim (maybe 1-2%?).

This is an interesting hand, because a while go there was a discussion in the Brick and Mortar forum about how soft the foxwoods mixed game is, and I mentioned that a lot of new players have gone into the game and gotten beat up because they didn't know the players. Sounds like exactly what happened here. You played it well, it just happens that you were in that 1-2% scenario. In EV land, you made $120 or so, so congratulations.

PS - You got OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNED! That guy probably needed a new biitch. Enjoy.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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i think u can safely fold the RIVER...there is NOTHING u can beat on the river besides an outright bluff and i dont see that happening because he may have been SEMI bluffing at pot on TURN and got there on river with a small pair with a diamond in his hand or no diamond and 2 pairs.....

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I think this is totally correct, ESPECIALLY because you are in the mixed game playing limit HE at foxwoods. The mixed game players there are not limit HE players, and in fact almost no one at foxwoods is. Thus it's REALLY likey that the above analysis is right on the mark. The chance of you running into no hand/almost no draw/raise on the turn is extraordinarily slim (maybe 1-2%?).

This is an interesting hand, because a while go there was a discussion in the Brick and Mortar forum about how soft the foxwoods mixed game is, and I mentioned that a lot of new players have gone into the game and gotten beat up because they didn't know the players. Sounds like exactly what happened here. You played it well, it just happens that you were in that 1-2% scenario. In EV land, you made $120 or so, so congratulations.

PS - You got OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNED! That guy probably needed a new biitch. Enjoy.

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the only thing is the older guys think they can push around the younger players in 75-150+ games at foxwoods, i get shown bluffs all the time in the high limits but it is only very very rare i get shown bluffs in the 20-40 hold em games by any players except some of the weaker "pros".

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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i think u can safely fold the RIVER...there is NOTHING u can beat on the river besides an outright bluff and i dont see that happening because he may have been SEMI bluffing at pot on TURN and got there on river with a small pair with a diamond in his hand or no diamond and 2 pairs.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is totally correct, ESPECIALLY because you are in the mixed game playing limit HE at foxwoods. The mixed game players there are not limit HE players, and in fact almost no one at foxwoods is. Thus it's REALLY likey that the above analysis is right on the mark. The chance of you running into no hand/almost no draw/raise on the turn is extraordinarily slim (maybe 1-2%?).

This is an interesting hand, because a while go there was a discussion in the Brick and Mortar forum about how soft the foxwoods mixed game is, and I mentioned that a lot of new players have gone into the game and gotten beat up because they didn't know the players. Sounds like exactly what happened here. You played it well, it just happens that you were in that 1-2% scenario. In EV land, you made $120 or so, so congratulations.

PS - You got OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNED! That guy probably needed a new biitch. Enjoy.

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the only thing is the older guys think they can push around the younger players in 75-150+ games at foxwoods, i get shown bluffs all the time in the high limits but it is only very very rare i get shown bluffs in the 20-40 hold em games by any players except some of the weaker "pros".

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this is true esp. if im on the button and josh is in the BB and ive drank like 3 redbulls haha [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

that game is rediculously soft though, but i agree w/ the other guy in thinking that you really need to know how some of them play to get an accurate read.. but most of the time you can figure that out in a few rotations b/c they really do play holdem and O8 obnoxiously bad.. definitly use BR management (i know, sounds ironic coming from me) b/c there is no folding going on in the O8 section.


they really do play holdem horribly i wish there were more guys playing holdem in the game when i was there playing it.. nobody wanted to play holdem when i was there for those few months.

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

pre-flop - chop

Re: 1/2 H.O. Foxwoods
 

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pre-flop - chop

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hope ur not serious