$16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

Villian is pretty tight from what I can tell and has been making a lot of these minimum raises preflop.

I am SB and have J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney
Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

<font color="#C00000">BB (t3935)</font>
UTG (t845)
MP (t2245)
Button (t3050)
<font color="#C00000">SB (t3425)</font>

Preflop:
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t400</font>, SB calls t200.

Flop: (t800) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t600</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises all-in</font>

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

what do u have

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

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what do u have

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lol...thanks I edited it

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

Flop seems standard. I don't know about PF, but it seems ok?

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

check raise on flop is standard.

Limp calling preflop is terrible. I dont know about your assesment of him being a tight player who mini raise alot.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

nh, despite a questionable call pf.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

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I dont know about your assesment of him being a tight player who mini raise alot.

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He was like a 20/17 but never opened for the standard 3xbb raise or 4xbb raise against a limper.

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Limp calling preflop is terrible

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I dont know why you say this as J9s stands a reasonable chance of beating another random hand in hold'em. I was also getting 4.25:1 to complete preflop and 8.25:1 to call the miniraise.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

BB's hand isn't merely a "random hand", you will be OOP in it, your hand is marginal, and you've dropped 600 chips here on it. This is why PF is bad.

As played, crai on the flop is best.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

Don't complete pf, no reason to get involved with another big stack. On this flop you have FE and a great hand, I hate putting my chips on the line here though against that stack uggh.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

Preflop is fine here. I would always complete here and once he minraises you can't really fold. As played flop is fine. Are there antes?

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

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Are there antes?

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Yes. All the people that are saying fold might be missing this. I was getting over 4:1 to complete.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

I don't understand why you're pressing on about getting odds here. You have a marginal hand, you will be out of position, and you're dropping 200 chips on this? Why?

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

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I don't understand why you're pressing on about getting odds here. You have a marginal hand, you will be out of position, and you're dropping 200 chips on this? Why?

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I had a hand that I estimated would win the pot more than its fair share of the time so yes I put chips in. I dont see how this play could be losing me large sums of money over the long run and also dont understand why you have problems with it. Even if the guy bets every flop (which he doesn't) I only have to improve like 20% of the time to show a profit. Also, every two plus two book I've read recommends completing in the SB with ANY two suited cards in the various forms of hold'em. What am I missing here?

My larger concern about this hand was whether or not to raise AI against another deep stack who can break me with J high. Everyone so far seems to think it was the right play though b/c of FE and outs. What do you think? Should I put this many chips on the line this early in the game against the only stack that can knock me out?

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

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Also, every two plus two book I've read recommends completing in the SB with ANY two suited cards in the various forms of hold'em.

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Uhhh, i dont think so. In fact, id like to see ANY 2p2 book that advocates a blanket policy, let alone one so bizarre.

Also, i see nothin wrong with the preflop. J9s is exactly the kind of hand i complete with here, its a flop hand, not a preflop, so i dont want to bloat the pot on a hand that is hard to play in a raised pot. If he minraises, youre not folding for 200 with 800 or whatever in the pot already.

Flop you can do one of two things, IMO. Option 1, prolly the better one 75% of the time, is to c/r all in. Its not JUST a flush draw, its a flush draw + 2 overs and i think there was a gutshot or at least a backdoor straight draw? He's the bigstack, but so are you, and hes not calling without a monster. However, im guessing since youre posting this he had an overpair which leads me to think your analysis of his minraise frequency may be off- but lets not be results oriented, maybe go back thru history and really check to see how many times he minraised and what he showd (if anything.)

The other option is to cold call and if you miss everything, see if he fires a second barrell. Very often, they give up now and youve gotten the turn and river to see if you hit without risking your life on coinflip at best.

As always, theres other considerations like the intelligence of the other players and such.

Re: $16 - flush draw vs. another deep stack
 

Looks fine to me, both pf and flop. Odds are too good to fold pf. In fact, given the vilain is tight, I suspect pushing is better than folding preflop (although I haven't got any software at work to check this). But I prefer completing.

nh