nys legal poker experts
 

so my local club is run by a guy who has sworn up and down that his club is "going to be legal" and now..."is legal"

Here is his reasoning..
1- he has legal papers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
2- it's a private club
3- it's classified as a "non profit" organization...um, yeah
4- he doesn't rake, (they take an "assessment fee" out of the pot...)

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

anyway, there are 2 clubs like this near me now- and they've both had articles in my local paper.... here is a link to the article

Second legal poker club opens in area

this is laughable- i sent an email to the reporter telling him the same thing.

btw, here is a great line to get all local officials ears perked up

"But Gagliardo says his club caters to a higher clientele than Otto's and includes state troopers, a judge and a lawyer."

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

There is no way in hell a NYS DA would issue a brief declaring his game to be legal. But its an interesting turn of events for NY players... I wonder how much he will be willing to fight the case in court? Do you know what the membership fees are?

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

membership fees

80 a year for cash game + tournament play rights- and access to bad beat/royal flush jackpots

65 a year if you just want to play tournaments.



-- i just noticed in the article it mentions only "tournament poker club" with no mention of raked cash game activity.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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There is no way in hell a NYS DA would issue a brief declaring his game to be legal. But its an interesting turn of events for NY players... I wonder how much he will be willing to fight the case in court? Do you know what the membership fees are?

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i'm not sure also about the other article, but "Al Otto's Poker club" was raided, and shut down for the night.

No money was confiscated and he got an injunction against the town that has allowed him to continue to operate for the time being..



The thing that threw me TT was that, with the NYC clubs that ran and made 10-40x what these guys make.....how did the big clubs down there never find this loophole these guys are claiming.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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The thing that threw me TT was that, with the NYC clubs that ran and made 10-40x what these guys make.....how did the big clubs down there never find this loophole these guys are claiming.

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This was actually one of a handful of ideas I had for making a club legal. If it's illegal to profit from gambling, then a non-profit card club should be safe. Of course, it wouldn't be very profitable. You could take a salary for running the establishment, but not a salary. You could charge a membership fee, daily time charges (not hourly) and close at a reasonable hour. I personally think a club like this would have a good chance of success, but the rewards would not be that high other than feeling good about yourself for improving the state of new york poker.

FWIW, the Mayfair claimed to be legal, and was not actually shut down based on gambling charges. They had a kitchen and a situation with the dumping of garbage. Their legality was thus never tested in court.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

It is worth watching, but I see lots of problems down the road. Here's one: it goes by the name of Big Slick, Inc. If it really is a corporation then it probably isn't a "not for profit social club."

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

You can tell it to the judge...........

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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It is worth watching, but I see lots of problems down the road. Here's one: it goes by the name of Big Slick, Inc. If it really is a corporation then it probably isn't a "not for profit social club."

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What does being incorporated have to do with being not for profit??

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure also about the other article, but "Al Otto's Poker club" was raided, and shut down for the night.

No money was confiscated and he got an injunction against the town that has allowed him to continue to operate for the time being..

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It seems that Al Otto was able to argue in court that he may be operating legally, so the court issued an injunction until the case is heard. This is not surprising, but it also doesnt mean he is operating legally - that is still to be determined.

Without going into research my understanding is that NYS will issue a temporary license to operate a poker tournament for charity. The charity must be a licensed regulated charity (not just a not for profit business), and the donation plan must be approved. These two rooms sound like they think they found a loophole that likely won't hold up.

TMTTR Alert! We need you!

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

I practiced law in NY for 10 years and I have no problem saying that this gentlemen is mistaken if he believes what he is doing is actually legal.

The biggest problem with people like this is that while they very well could have operated a poker club without a problem for quite some time if they kept it on the down low, they convince themselves it is legal and they don't proetc themselves. So eventually they will force the police to take action. Its very likely that in a place like Wallkill NY the police would be happy to ignore an illegal poker game as long as it didb't get out of hand.

As for being approved by the sate, it simply appears they formed a not-for-profit corporation for social purposes, not really a big deal, and while technically the may have NYS states approval, that doesn't mean the state approves everything the corporation does.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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TMTTR Alert! We need you!

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LOL. I have been on and off vacation for the last week and change. Back in the office now and not much time to respond fully. Interesting ideas here but I would rather comment fully (maybe tonight).

One easy point: In New York, you can be a not-for-profit corporation (and most charities are such) -- so the fact that there is an "Inc." at the end of their name, has no effect on the analysis.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure also about the other article, but "Al Otto's Poker club" was raided, and shut down for the night.

No money was confiscated and he got an injunction against the town that has allowed him to continue to operate for the time being..

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that Al Otto was able to argue in court that he may be operating legally, so the court issued an injunction until the case is heard. This is not surprising, but it also doesnt mean he is operating legally - that is still to be determined.

Without going into research my understanding is that NYS will issue a temporary license to operate a poker tournament for charity. The charity must be a licensed regulated charity (not just a not for profit business), and the donation plan must be approved. These two rooms sound like they think they found a loophole that likely won't hold up.

TMTTR Alert! We need you!

[/ QUOTE ]

No Charity poker is not legal in NY. NY allows certain charity gaming but poker is not one of the allowed games.

see the NYS Racing and Wagering Board Website -- http://www.racing.state.ny.us/charit...dem.notice.htm (the racing and wagering board oversees charitable gaming).

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Without going into research my understanding is that NYS will issue a temporary license to operate a poker tournament for charity. The charity must be a licensed regulated charity (not just a not for profit business), and the donation plan must be approved. These two rooms sound like they think they found a loophole that likely won't hold up.

TMTTR Alert! We need you!

[/ QUOTE ]

No Charity poker is not legal in NY. NY allows certain charity gaming but poker is not one of the allowed games.

see the NYS Racing and Wagering Board Website -- http://www.racing.state.ny.us/charit...dem.notice.htm (the racing and wagering board oversees charitable gaming).

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I have done this research as well and psandman is correct. Of course, charity tournaments are held frequently in New York for many very reputable charities. That doesn't make them "legal."

If I recall correctly, a charity poker event might be legal if you did not pay to play poker or no valuable prizes (cash or otherwise) would be awarded. That is, a charitable organization has a "casino night" (or a "poker night" I guess). At those events, you make a donation to attend the event but then play games without putting up money at all. You can play as much or as little as you want. Nominal prizes are sometimes awarded for those that win the most in these non-cash, play money games. (This is NOT how most charitable tournaments are organized in NY. Most tournaments are "illegal" as organized but are unlikely to draw the attention of the authorities.)

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Without going into research my understanding is that NYS will issue a temporary license to operate a poker tournament for charity. The charity must be a licensed regulated charity (not just a not for profit business), and the donation plan must be approved. These two rooms sound like they think they found a loophole that likely won't hold up.

TMTTR Alert! We need you!

[/ QUOTE ]

No Charity poker is not legal in NY. NY allows certain charity gaming but poker is not one of the allowed games.

see the NYS Racing and Wagering Board Website -- http://www.racing.state.ny.us/charit...dem.notice.htm (the racing and wagering board oversees charitable gaming).

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I have done this research as well and psandman is correct. Of course, charity tournaments are held frequently in New York for many very reputable charities. That doesn't make them "legal."

If I recall correctly, a charity poker event might be legal if you did not pay to play poker or no valuable prizes (cash or otherwise) would be awarded. That is, a charitable organization has a "casino night" (or a "poker night" I guess). At those events, you make a donation to attend the event but then play games without putting up money at all. You can play as much or as little as you want. Nominal prizes are sometimes awarded for those that win the most in these non-cash, play money games. (This is NOT how most charitable tournaments are organized in NY. Most tournaments are "illegal" as organized but are unlikely to draw the attention of the authorities.)

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I think TMTTR is correct. I have attended a few celebrity tournaments at NYC hot spots with politicos attending sponsored by Borgata. In each scenario the player pays to attend the event, there is no separate admission for the tournament. The player is playing for his or her favorite charity, and he or she keeps a prize package (not cash) as their take home winnings.

There is a company in Long Island that regularly advertises themselves as a charity poker vendor which will procure a license from the state to operate the charity even. I don't recall the name, but it would be interesting to research what their operation really does.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

OK, I know this is a delicate subject (as it should be ... gotta be careful), and I know it is only tangentially related to this thread, but figured I'd give it a go as this is a thread on nyS poker which may pick up some nyC observers...

I'm a member of a club in the city, and am looking to find out about other clubs I could join (sort of as an insurance policy in case mine gets shut down, given that a couple others were hit in the past month). Now I'm obviously not looking for anyone to post online here with the name/address of a club or anything, but just looking for some etiquette advice: should I ask "the floor" or dealers at my club about other possible venues? Would that come off as nosey/rude? I have no intention of leaving my club (I love it) unless it gets shut down.

Ditto asking other players at my venue. Is that cool?

thx for any thoughts.

Re: nys legal poker experts
 

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I'm a member of a club in the city,

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Your WERE a member of a club. They are all closed now, none left. Someday soon more will reopen we all assume, but not today.