Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

This is a general question and I am pursuing a theory of mine, wanted to know if anyone had any comments on it. My roommates both disagree with me on this, so I wanted to ask the general 2p2 consensus.

Satellite into a big tournament (doesn't matter the size)... we're down to 21 people. 15 get seats, 3 other cash something minor and insignificant. We have 32k chips and are the chip leader after aggressively dominating the table and having people just donate chips to us happily. The second stack overall is just over 21k and no one else is over 18k. We are on a relatively short table, having recently taken out the only guy over 7k. The rough chip counts are (32k, 4 in the 6k range, 5k, 2 and 3k, and a shortly at about 1800). Blinds are up to 500/1000 with antes.

Here is my question. Given this table dynamic and structure, is it a good play to open shove every hand? Excluding total garbage hands. So maybe, open shove the following range {A2+, K2+, 54+, 64s+, 22+} ? If we lose, we are still chip leader. If we get called, we probably have good equity. If not called, we take more chips away from short stacks.

Thoughts?

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

What do you gain by playing hands instead of just folding?

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

Pushing around the short guys and putting them on tough decisions... not letting them just fold in.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

I would think that in this situation it can't be optimal to push ever hand. The point of a satelite is to qualify and with nothing else to gain by going deeper why would you take such chances? You can cruise you way in with 32bb's here. Especially since so many have like 6bbs or less. There is an excellent post in the anthology about this.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...409&page=1

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

And that helps you how exactly?

edit: I mean, you have like a 99.99% chance to get a seat right now, you get absolutely no benefit from playing hands.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing around the short guys and putting them on tough decisions... not letting them just fold in.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a flat payout structure, so why not just fold in yourself? What are you gaining by collecting chips here? Again, it's a flat payout structure. You don't gain anything.

I think your strategy (super aggro push botting with a monster stack on the bubble of a satellite) is the exact opposite of optimal. Big stacks should be very tight on the bubble of a satellite. Monstro stacks have the most equity on a satellite bubble, so they have (by far) the most to lose by splashing around. You don't need to push around short stacks; that's what blinds are for. And really, it should be said again, gaining extra chips gets you nothing here, but losing chips could be a huge equity drain.

Even though it might be counter-intuitive, it really makes much more sense for short-stacks to get LAGtarded on a satellite bubble than big stacks.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

Like Dunkman said, you're basically garunteed to place. Which makes playing ANY hand -$ev. I'm folding aces without much thought here.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

unplug youre computer

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing around the short guys and putting them on tough decisions... not letting them just fold in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a general question and I am pursuing a theory of mine, wanted to know if anyone had any comments on it. My roommates both disagree with me on this, so I wanted to ask the general 2p2 consensus.

Satellite into a big tournament (doesn't matter the size)... we're down to 21 people. 15 get seats, 3 other cash something minor and insignificant. We have 32k chips and are the chip leader after aggressively dominating the table and having people just donate chips to us happily. The second stack overall is just over 21k and no one else is over 18k. We are on a relatively short table, having recently taken out the only guy over 7k. The rough chip counts are (32k, 4 in the 6k range, 5k, 2 and 3k, and a shortly at about 1800). Blinds are up to 500/1000 with antes.

Here is my question. Given this table dynamic and structure, is it a good play to open shove every hand? Excluding total garbage hands. So maybe, open shove the following range {A2+, K2+, 54+, 64s+, 22+} ? If we lose, we are still chip leader. If we get called, we probably have good equity. If not called, we take more chips away from short stacks.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a joke post, right?!

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

You aren't playing for first place here you are playing to make the money. Playing ANY hand here puts ur stack in jeopardy when you are almost guaranteed to win a seat, fold every hand.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
unplug youre computer

[/ QUOTE ]

This.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

Looks like whatever you do is $ev neutral since you can't lose enough chips in one hand to jeopardize your chances. This is long as you know to start folding (and I mean folding AA) if you get to the point where losing a pot could reduce your chances of winning to 99.9999%. I don't see how playing to end the tournament more quickly helps your hourly since you are online and can just minimize this tournament and start another.

But if for any reason you feel like making life miserable for the short stacks (or a medium stack dumb enough to tangle with you), I can't find any reason why you shouldn't play -- just don't actually take any real chances.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

I can answer your question easily by simply stating that when I am one of the short stacks in this situation, I love big stacks that are playing like this.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can answer your question easily by simply stating that when I am one of the short stacks in this situation, I love big stacks that are playing like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]

Pushing around the short guys and putting them on tough decisions... not letting them just fold in.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you care if they have to make tough decisions? I mean, you're trying to maximize your profit, which you can do making a drink and unplugging your mouse.

Unless being a d*ck to short stacks gives you a happy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

irronically its the opposite sitting out assures you of a seat and is optimal

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

open-shove every hand and CRUSH THE SOUL OF THOSE SILLY MISFITS WHO RISK THEIR TOURNAMENT LIFE JUST TO BUBBLE

RAWR

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

but guys, ending a satellite with the monster chip stack is + life EV because it gives you confidence and then you can talk to pretty girls

shove away

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
unplug youre computer

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sub-optimal. You should stay at the computer and take the longest possible time to fold every hand so the short stacks get the least number of hands before the blinds put them in. Plus, it's a great way to make friends.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

play kk aa maybe qq fold all else.

Re: Satellite Strategy - Playing the MONSTER stack close to the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
play kk aa maybe qq fold all else.

[/ QUOTE ]

play nothing at all. The only hand I play here is when I flop the absolute nuts in my BB and I didn't have to put any more money in to see the flop. Even then, I'm just as likely to sit it out and start up a new one.