My toughest hand in ME
 

Feature table of ME, Hellmuth is at table, and 1 other bracelet winner. I've been playing pretty solid, with occasional resteals or w/e but, just normal stuff that people expect. I haven't caught many hands though, and haven't shown down a hand yet. MP is aggroo preflop and supposed tourney pro. I have about 18k, blinds 200/400 about 1 hour into the level. SB is very very loose middle aged Chinese dude. He has about 35k, but is pretty new to the table. He limps and calls raises a lot PF, but doesn't seem to make big moves postflop.

MP opens to 1200, I call next to him with 88, and the SB calls. Flop is 963 with a flush draw, and MP bets 2500. I think for a bit and call, and then SB also calls. Turn is another 9 (no flush yet) and SB quickly shoves for 5.6k into about an 11k pot. MP folds and I call.

I think I could have played this differently on a few streets. Preflop is 3-betting better against this type of guy? He was opening a lot, but not the type to play back at 3-bets or call light? I also think flop is close to a fold, but it sucks because this is one of the best flops for 88. Is turn ever a fold? Thanks guys.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

I like the way you played it but I'm pretty sure a fold to the turn shove is correct. If he's the type to be doing this with a flush draw, he would have check/shoved the flop, not called and shoved the turn. I think he has a 9 here very, very often.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

i'm confused - i thought SB had 35k to start the hand?

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

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i'm confused - i thought SB had 35k to start the hand?

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ooops, I'm retarded. Wrong stack sizes.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

MP was agony of defeat Michael McClain (9th place 2004 WSOP)?

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4...mcclainzm4.jpg

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

Yes, that was him!

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

i think its fine. i probably call the turn too

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

I think SB either has a 9 in his hand, slowplayed a big pocket pair, or is certifiably insane. He overcalled for a third of his stack on the flop and then pushed with just 1/2 the pot, he has to believe he's getting called by any real hand here. At least 99.5% chance you are beat here. Prior to that, I play the hand the same way, although I might raise on the flop.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

he pushed w half the pot giving you the odds to call even though you prob are beat.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played it but I'm pretty sure a fold to the turn shove is correct. If he's the type to be doing this with a flush draw, he would have check/shoved the flop, not called and shoved the turn. I think he has a 9 here very, very often.

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i agree with this post. the thing is, unless he has a flush draw or total air, 3:1 is not enough to call. i really don't see anyone crazy enough to do this with just a 6, the only thing conceivable that you beat is a flush draw (87 being unlikely because of your hand). i guess he can have 54. to sum up, i agree with uclabruinz

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

He had a flush draw. Nice hand.

Easy call on the turn, I always see a draw played like this.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
MP is aggroo preflop and supposed tourney pro. I have about 18k, blinds 200/400 about 1 hour into the level. SB is very very loose middle aged Chinese dude. He has about 35k, but is pretty new to the table. He limps and calls raises a lot PF, but doesn't seem to make big moves postflop.

MP opens to 1200, I call next to him with 88, and the SB calls. Flop is 963 with a flush draw, and MP bets 2500. I think for a bit and call, and then SB also calls. Turn is another 9 (no flush yet) and SB quickly shoves for 5.6k into about an 11k pot. MP folds and I call.



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Here is what I read,
MP, a supposed "pro", agroo pf, 35K.
SB, a loose chinese, 9.2K.
Hero MP+1, 19K.

With MP's image, from your observation, he opens with a lot of hands pf and c-bets a lot with air. I raise the flop.


On the flop, 3-way action, SB checks, MP bets, Hero raises.

Hero vs MP : MP (with his image) not likely to have overpair or set and he folds to flop raise most of the time.

SB vs Hero, basically your raise has already put SB all-in, with MP behind him, SB folds under pair, 9 and only push with flush draw/set.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

Is there a reason no one here has mentioned raising the flop? I'm not sure that's the best line, but I think if I'm getting felted with this hand I'm raising the flop because there are so many turn cards I'd hate to see, and I think calling 2500 then folding 5.6k on the turn in an 11k pot is kind of bad.

Pre-flop I think the call is fine, depending on table dynamics I'd fold here sometimes and I might even 3 bet occasionally, but standard is probably a call. I really think I either raise or fold the flop though 3 handed.

-Rizen

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

Rizen,

I know you know this, but you can't judge the equity of a particular decision based on just one of many possible series of events that could have happened after that decision. Calling the flop and folding to the turn shove may look bad in hindsight, but there are a multitude of things that could have happened that would have made the flop call look good.

Anyway, I think you actually make a good case for just folding the flop. There's a flush draw, we've already been bet into in a 3-way pot, and there is still someone left to act. More often then not we're not going to like the turn cards.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

That McLain guy has been really, really tight from the hands I've seen him play on TV and on reports online, FWIW. Only about 15-20 hands but I he's known as a "Solid Pro."

I think I fold to the shove but play it like you did up until then.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

I think he has a 9 here in this situation and he doesn't want to get it in on the flop because he is so short that someone with a flush draw/straight draw will call him and he will be 50/50 with a flush draw or the person will have good enough odds to call an OESD. I think sb was probably thinking on the turn I am going to shove anything that doesn't complete the flush.

I fold

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

The SB did end up being certifiably insane, but the monster inside of him had not been fully unleashed at that point.

I only play a handful of tournaments per year, so I'm definitely not a 'tourney pro'. Whenever they show me on ESPN, I have AA, so you should probably not get involved if I raise preflop.

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

once he overcalls you can muck your eights unless you turn a third one

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

i was at your table, were you intimidated by me? this hand was really bad, flat call is sick preflop (sick good), overcall on flop = your dead. my guess is sb here has something like a9 (lol?)

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

also, gobbo, i hope ur joking or drunk you're better then this

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

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i was at your table, were you intimidated by me? this hand was really bad, flat call is sick preflop (sick good), overcall on flop = your dead. my guess is sb here has something like a9 (lol?)

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My 88 against you was def questionable. I didn't know who you were at the time, but the table seemed scared of you. BTW are you still in?

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

yeah still in with half average stack (27k) got 2 outered pretty bad last level

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

ya, we were at the same feature table (I was the brown dude who knocked out hellmuth)

Re: My toughest hand in ME
 

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ya, we were at the same feature table (I was the brown dude who knocked out hellmuth)

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This is so much better than cashing.