Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

50BBs is not deep enough to be folding KK preflop without an oreo like tell.

While live fish like to hollywood and pretend they're upset when they have a moster, who is to say what a monster is to this guy QQ JJ AK?

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

Shove.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

i dont think im ever folding kings in a sng unless maybee 10 people, 9 all get a million and every1 proceeds to go all in im in bb , i muck the kings and become rich [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

looks like you have a good read, but im not folding for 50 BBs.

A normal sit n go online starts with only 75 BBs.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stacks are 50 BB's. Ten handed. Villain is about 40 and hispanic. Buy in $1000, winner take all.

Villain opens UTG to 3 BB's, hero raises black kings to 12 BB's OTB, Villain looks down at his chips and starts shaking his head like he is pissed he is getting 3-bet again. He looks at his cards, mutters something to himself and then grabs 30 BB's and tosses them into the middle of the table.

My read was what live fish do with the nuts right before they raise. They start pretending like they don't like that you've bet/raised them. They go into a routine and then they raise/re-raise you.

I turbo muck my kings face-up onto the middle of the table. I wasn't even sure what I would do if he re-raised, mucking them was just like when the doctor knocks your knee with that little hammer and your leg goes up against your will. They just came flying out of my hand.

Only time I've ever folded KK PF.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is pretty much a spot on read. The only other hand I can see him doing all that crap with is KK.

Everyone saying you fold, look what the villian is doing:
Looks at his chips first (unconscious [sp?] tell)
Then starts hollywooding:
Shakes his head
Pretends to get pissed
Looks at his cards
Says something audible enough for his opponent to hear

Then tosses another 30 BB in.

AA - 95% of the time
KK - 4% of the time
?? - 1% of the time

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

Not deep enough to fold - especially in a winner takes all.

Even if it was a good fold, why do it face up? You're just begging to get taken advantage of. Put your ego to one side and quietly muck like you made a move with 23o.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]

Even if it was a good fold, why do it face up? You're just begging to get taken advantage of. Put your ego to one side and quietly muck like you made a move with 23o.

[/ QUOTE ]

why ever show?

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

^^ Well, precisely. I never do and I rarely understand why anyone does. I don't see any benefit in showing here.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

what kind of face did the guy make when he saw you folded KK?

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not deep enough to fold - especially in a winner takes all.

Even if it was a good fold, why do it face up? You're just begging to get taken advantage of. Put your ego to one side and quietly muck like you made a move with 23o.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like he was 98%+ sure about his read so it's a good fold. If I ever have that type of read on the person, and I don't have the pot odds, and it's +ev for me to fold over calling, I'm folding every time.

I agree about folding face up. Never do it.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

I am not folding Kings here.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

lol @ folding kings PF, let alone when playing in:

a) live

or

b) sng


doing it in both a and b at the same time is just dumb.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

This is a lot closer than people think and I don't hate it.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

folding is fine with a nice live read. showing your cards is stupid

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

IMO this is a horrible fold, fish will show up will all kinds of garbage. Chances are even decent that his "hollywooding" was really him actually getting pissed at getting 3bet again so he had enough and decided to play back. I'm not folding to some generalized read, if you had seen him do this before then MAYBE you can fold.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a lot closer than people think and I don't hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he probably has AA. I don't think I've ever seen anything other than the nuts after this routine. Still I doubt I fold.

Next time I play live I swear I will make that play with 72o.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a lot closer than people think and I don't hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he probably has AA. I don't think I've ever seen anything other than the nuts after this routine. Still I doubt I fold.

Next time I play live I swear I will make that play with 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen this routine without the nuts. I'd put him on AA about 50% of time, meaning I make a crying call.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

I remember when I first started, I thought KQ, AQ+, JJ+ was the nuts. This guy could be a super donk and wants action with one of the hands above. I never fold here.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]

En route to victory ( [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] ) I later folded QQ and AK PF in this tourney as well, and both times I showed those also.

The QQ was to a limp-re-raise UTG from like the nittiest old dude in Vegas, the AK was to a huge overbet shove of my UTG raise that could have been a call but I didn't feel like flipping when I owned those [censored] post flop

This guy later told me he had aces but he didn't do anything when I showed, just quietly put his cards in the muck

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too bad you got bluffed off of AK & QQ by suited connectors because you showed the KK laydown earlier and they realized they could get you off a hand. Nice show sir. Nice show.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

En route to victory ( [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] ) I later folded QQ and AK PF in this tourney as well, and both times I showed those also.

The QQ was to a limp-re-raise UTG from like the nittiest old dude in Vegas, the AK was to a huge overbet shove of my UTG raise that could have been a call but I didn't feel like flipping when I owned those [censored] post flop

This guy later told me he had aces but he didn't do anything when I showed, just quietly put his cards in the muck

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too bad you got bluffed off of AK & QQ by suited connectors because you showed the KK laydown earlier and they realized they could get you off a hand. Nice show sir. Nice show.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can see into their soul........

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

It is very likely that you incorrectly folded one or more of those hands, much more likely than all of them being correct. Especially after showing.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

I just wanted to say that in this thread and Gramps thread people are really underestimating the nittyness of some live players. I never play live, but talking to people at the ME there are people who an reraise means KK+. So some of this overly nitty play, which is horrible online is often fine live.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

its possible it was good but wtf dont show, why the hell does everyone do that, its so bad for so many reasons.

I probably wouldn't fold, but ok I wasn't there.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

even if it was a good fold, showing the hand, makin the "superstar laydown" is just going to make people bluff u all the time ...they think... he folded kings pf i can get him off this

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

I don't have enough live experience to speak with much authority but do you not think that there is a moderate chance that:

a) he's acting strong by acting weak, which means he's weak (or at least not as strong as KK)
b) he puts on this little act with TT+ & AQ+, or even slightly narrower ranges

?

If so, and I think this is so FAR more often than not, then I have to call.

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to say that in this thread and Gramps thread people are really underestimating the nittyness of some live players. I never play live, but talking to people at the ME there are people who an reraise means KK+. So some of this overly nitty play, which is horrible online is often fine live.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't disagree with this but I've heard just as many stories and been in just as many situations where I thought the player could have nothing but the nuts and I was shown a ridiculous bluff or hand that a bad player thought qualified as the nuts. I still think it requires reads to make a lot of these laydowns, and the fact that he is now stating that after showing his KK laid down AK and QQ as well....meh

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is about 40 and hispanic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys all seemed to miss this part.

This makes it a CLEAR SHOVE, as we know "hispanics" do this move with air all the time!

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

lol.com

Re: Live SNG, I folded Kings PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is about 40 and hispanic.

[/ QUOTE ]

good fold man.