Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My action?
 

5/10 NL last night at Resorts EC. Seat 6 is a total novice with no clue whats going on. He's playing almost entirely in green. Seat 5 is a regular in this game and stuck a few racks. All the dealers and floor people know him by name, nickname(s), and by all the big hands he's won/lost.

Situation: Seat 6 is in a hand. Seat 5 asks if he wants some color to play with and pulls out a stack of red. Seat 6 accepts the stack and tosses over 5 green, still thinking about the hand he's in. Seat 5 looks at the green, then decides to pick it up like nothing happened. Seat 8, friend of seat 5, sees this and starts saying something about "bad karma, bad bad karma." A few hands later he's still talking about karma, looks at the dealer, and says something like "Tell him the type of bad karma he's getting into." I'm in the 10 seat so I can't see the expression on the dealer's face but I presume the dealer saw it as well, as it was a seat 5/seat 6 transaction directly in front of him.

I'm in the 10 seat, not involved in the hand and not wanting to make enemies at the table. Should I have said something?

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My action?
 

You just say something like "I think you got one too many chips" in a non-accusing voice.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

step on his throat

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

Was this at Table 12? This definitley seems like something seat 5 would do. Earlier in the night one of my green chips rolled away from me and seat 5 took it and put it in his stack. I had to ask him 5 times before he gave it back.

BTW, I was in seat 1, than took seat 2 when Kyle left. If you remember me.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

Agree with Dynasty. I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything. Seems like alot of dealers become TOO good of friends with the regulars.

Also, if this jerk will steal $25 in a situation like this....you better watch your wallet. A thief is a thief in my book.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

I definitely say something but I wouldn't fault you for being silent.

I like dynasty's approach of saying something (after the hand) along the lines of 'did he (seat 6) just give you 5 greenbirds by accident?' so that seat 5 can play it off as it not being his mistake and so that 6 does not get screwed.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Was this at Table 12? This definitley seems like something seat 5 would do. Earlier in the night one of my green chips rolled away from me and seat 5 took it and put it in his stack. I had to ask him 5 times before he gave it back.

BTW, I was in seat 1, than took seat 2 when Kyle left. If you remember me.

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Think I remember you....seat 5 took a big pot off you with K9 and you left not too long afterward? Or I have you confused with someone else?

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

I would have said something in a joking manner.

"you tip $25 for a color change, nice guy"

"I'll give you all the stacks of red you want if you give me that much back"

No human being is going to not give it back, or claim that he only recieved 4 greens. If he does the table should join in kicking his ass.

The dealer really should be the one to say something though, if he saw of course.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Agree with Dynasty. I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything. Seems like alot of dealers become TOO good of friends with the regulars.


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I get that impression at lot at the Resorts room because its a small setting and it seems to be a pretty consistent group of regulars that keeps the 5/10 game going. I've been playing there a lot more lately and don't want to be in the position of making enemies, but also dont want the regular in seat 5 to go on acting like he owns the place. Didn't know if it was a caveat emptor situation or not.

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

Are all of you guys losers without backbones? Whats with all this "i would of jokingly said", "in a non accusing voice", etc, and worst of all, just remain silent altogether.

The guy str8 up stole $25, from a rookie no less. And all you guys are gonna do is just be playful with the guy? Or worst of all, not say anything at all?

Please explain to me cause i am having a hard time understanding this. Is stealing at the poker table any different then stealing from any other facet of life?

My post may sound harsh but all you guys seriously need to grow a set of balls. What you should do in this situation(what i would do), is to tell seat 5 to immediatly return the extra chip that doesnt belong to him in a stern voice. Non of this joking, non accusing, nonsense. Why would you even use a "non accusing voice" when that is exactly what he did(stole)? I'd prolly go a step further and made sure that the whole table knew that he tried to steal a chip from the novice.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

Hey Doc,

Its the med student who went on a heater yesterday morning. It was a pleasure playing with you the past couple of days. Anyway, I like dynasty's approach. You protect the integrity of the game while minimizing the risk of making an enemy.

You'll have to give me a hint as to which regular this is.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Was this at Table 12? This definitley seems like something seat 5 would do. Earlier in the night one of my green chips rolled away from me and seat 5 took it and put it in his stack. I had to ask him 5 times before he gave it back.

BTW, I was in seat 1, than took seat 2 when Kyle left. If you remember me.

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Think I remember you....seat 5 took a big pot off you with K9 and you left not too long afterward? Or I have you confused with someone else?

The Doc

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Yeah, that was me. I had the case 9 on a K 9 x 9 x board. I don't think I can find a fold in that spot against him. I probably would've called off my stack, so I guess I saved ~$400.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Are all of you guys losers without backbones? Whats with all this "i would of jokingly said", "in a non accusing voice", etc, and worst of all, just remain silent altogether.

The guy str8 up stole $25, from a rookie no less. And all you guys are gonna do is just be playful with the guy? Or worst of all, not say anything at all?

Please explain to me cause i am having a hard time understanding this. Is stealing at the poker table any different then stealing from any other facet of life?

My post may sound harsh but all you guys seriously need to grow a set of balls. What you should do in this situation(what i would do), is to tell seat 5 to immediatly return the extra chip that doesnt belong to him in a stern voice. Non of this joking, non accusing, nonsense. Why would you even use a "non accusing voice" when that is exactly what he did(stole)? I'd prolly go a step further and made sure that the whole table knew that he tried to steal a chip from the novice.

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There is no need to cause a big deal and make someone feel like the [censored] that he is when you have to sit at a poker table for hours on end with the guy.

If you say it "joking" then the guy gets the chip back, and thats the end of it.

Taking your action is a good way to slow the game down and piss everyone off. I hate when people make a big deal about things, the floor gets called over, the game stops, the guy is mad, your mad. There is no point in being an ass about it and making a big deal and dragging it on for hours.

/rant

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Resorts EC.

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where is this?

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Resorts EC.

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where is this?

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East Chicago, Indiana

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

I find it kind of sad you didn't say anything. You just watched somebody steal $25 and didn't do anything.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything if he didn't see it because he was busy with his job at hand, that of running a poker game.

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Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything if he didn't see it because he was busy with his job at hand, that of running a poker game.

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BS, part of running a game is ensuring the integrity of that game.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything if he didn't see it because he was busy with his job at hand, that of running a poker game.

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BS, part of running a game is ensuring the integrity of that game.

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WTF? Dealers are suppose to watch every chip trade done at the table. They're suppose to always watch every player to make sure they don't steal from others? They only have two eyes. Thats why people should speak up when they see something wrong.

As far as if the dealer saw it or not, we'll never know.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I've been playing there a lot more lately and don't want to be in the position of making enemies,

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What's with this 'enemy' crap? Do you really care if this type of person becomes an enemy?

I can say with all the time I've spent in a cardroom, I never gave 2 sh*ts less if I made an enemy or not. Especially over something like this. Even more-so with an A-Hole that knowingly shorts another player who's distracted. Get some friggin' balls.

b

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Are all of you guys losers without backbones? Whats with all this "i would of jokingly said", "in a non accusing voice", etc, and worst of all, just remain silent altogether.

The guy str8 up stole $25, from a rookie no less. And all you guys are gonna do is just be playful with the guy? Or worst of all, not say anything at all?

Please explain to me cause i am having a hard time understanding this. Is stealing at the poker table any different then stealing from any other facet of life?

My post may sound harsh but all you guys seriously need to grow a set of balls. What you should do in this situation(what i would do), is to tell seat 5 to immediatly return the extra chip that doesnt belong to him in a stern voice. Non of this joking, non accusing, nonsense. Why would you even use a "non accusing voice" when that is exactly what he did(stole)? I'd prolly go a step further and made sure that the whole table knew that he tried to steal a chip from the novice.

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I agree. Especially if this is a known A-hole. From the OP, it does seem as if he knew exactly what he was doing. Screw him. I don't see how this would piss off anyone but the POS that's getting caught tyring to pull a fast one.

b

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

yeah. who cares if the guy becomes an 'enemy'? if he's being dishonest, it destroys the integrity of the game. let this guy get away with it now, and who knows what he'll try next?

there's nothing wrong with calling another player out if they're obviously doing something they shouldn't be doing.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My action?
 

i immediately diffuse these situations by saying very casually but affirmatively, non accusatory "one too many"

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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i immediately diffuse these situations by saying very casually but affirmatively, non accusatory "one too many"

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This, or something akin to what Dynasty suggested, was what I should have done and what I will do in the future.

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are all of you guys losers without backbones? Whats with all this "i would of jokingly said", "in a non accusing voice", etc, and worst of all, just remain silent altogether.

The guy str8 up stole $25, from a rookie no less. And all you guys are gonna do is just be playful with the guy? Or worst of all, not say anything at all?

Please explain to me cause i am having a hard time understanding this. Is stealing at the poker table any different then stealing from any other facet of life?

My post may sound harsh but all you guys seriously need to grow a set of balls. What you should do in this situation(what i would do), is to tell seat 5 to immediatly return the extra chip that doesnt belong to him in a stern voice. Non of this joking, non accusing, nonsense. Why would you even use a "non accusing voice" when that is exactly what he did(stole)? I'd prolly go a step further and made sure that the whole table knew that he tried to steal a chip from the novice.

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I don't think it has very much to do with having a backbone at all. If there were a rule posted on the wall saying that all players are responsible for verifying the integrity of all chip transactions they witness, then I would have said something. The point is that obviously what this guy did was wrong, and I was wondering if its my place to say anything.

Typically when two players are conducting a transaction between themselves I try to stay out of it entirely because very often one of the two will be trying to scam the other (think: "Hey, I'll lay you even money that a jack, seven or deuce shows up on the flop", etc). Then again, when a dealer is having difficulty figuring out a sidepot I try to respectfully chime in with the right amounts for everything--but that's designed to speed the game along. I wasn't sure if this fell under that category or not.

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I've been playing there a lot more lately and don't want to be in the position of making enemies,

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What's with this 'enemy' crap? Do you really care if this type of person becomes an enemy?

I can say with all the time I've spent in a cardroom, I never gave 2 sh*ts less if I made an enemy or not. Especially over something like this. Even more-so with an A-Hole that knowingly shorts another player who's distracted. Get some friggin' balls.

b

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There is no advantage to making an enemy in the poker world but there are a thousand ways that could hurt you.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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yeah. who cares if the guy becomes an 'enemy'?

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With regard to the enemy business, I have mixed feelings. Like bernie said, I certainly don't give a damn if the player in question likes me or dislikes me. He's a prick and I'm pretty sure he doesn't really like anybody at the table anyway. At the same time, he's involved in probably 60% of hands and I'd rather not have him making revenge plays at me when we're in a pot together.

Then there's the added angle of him being there constantly and presumably having extra sway with the dealers and floorpeople. I could envision a situation where this could also come back to hurt me if the player in question was really determined to exact some sort of revenge.

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Hey Doc,

Its the med student who went on a heater yesterday morning. It was a pleasure playing with you the past couple of days. Anyway, I like dynasty's approach. You protect the integrity of the game while minimizing the risk of making an enemy.

You'll have to give me a hint as to which regular this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, don't remember you in particular. You might have me confused with the thin older guy that goes by "Doc" in that game. Were you on table 12? I arrived around 8:30 sat night and left by 3:00am.

The Doc

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

And taking into account all the ethical reasons, you would rather have the newbie have the $25 instead of the regular. Much better chance of that "extra" $25 coming to you from the newb instead of the regular.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

Some punk snatches your grandma's purse with her last $25 for the month from her social securty check, you'd ...

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

punks don't steal grandmas..

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

"It's a sin to let a sucker keep his money"


Honestly I'm not sure if I would have said anything only because it's not my business. I'd say like 40% saying something joking or casual and like 60% nothing. It could also be a legitimate mistake from the guy that allegedly stole too, because five chips for a 20 stack is normal when dealing with reds and whites, so doing five for a 20 stack would occasionally make sense to me if I'm in the middle of a hand. As far as the "bad karma" conversation goes, that could literally be anything. Two friends might be joking about him hooking up with a cocktail waitress and ignoring her or any number of things.

Is all of this the most likely case? Probably not, but you cannot rule it out.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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I am not surprised at all that a "buddy-buddy" dealer wouldn't say anything if he didn't see it because he was busy with his job at hand, that of running a poker game.

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The OP said:

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A few hands later he's still talking about karma, looks at the dealer, and says something like "Tell him the type of bad karma he's getting into." I'm in the 10 seat so I can't see the expression on the dealer's face but I presume the dealer saw it as well, as it was a seat 5/seat 6 transaction directly in front of him.

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He was under the assumption the dealer saw it and he was there at the table I wasn't. I'm going off the OP's story.

As for a "buddy-buddy" dealer letting this slip....it wouldn't surprise me at all by select few dealers. I do not think this is the norm but we've all see the regulars, whom the dealers know by name, get by with things that would get a tourist reprimanded. Sometimes I think the reason nothing is said is not because the dealer doesn't care, but because they are "friends" with the regular and it's alot harder to reprimand a friend than a total stranger. This case is a prime example, it's much more uncomfortable to basically call a friend a thief and tell him to give the chip back, than it is a tourist who'll you'll never see again.

Again, I think this is the exception, not rule. But anyone who has played in enough poker rooms has run across this before.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Are all of you guys losers without backbones? Whats with all this "i would of jokingly said", "in a non accusing voice", etc, and worst of all, just remain silent altogether.

The guy str8 up stole $25, from a rookie no less. And all you guys are gonna do is just be playful with the guy? Or worst of all, not say anything at all?

Please explain to me cause i am having a hard time understanding this. Is stealing at the poker table any different then stealing from any other facet of life?

My post may sound harsh but all you guys seriously need to grow a set of balls. What you should do in this situation(what i would do), is to tell seat 5 to immediatly return the extra chip that doesnt belong to him in a stern voice. Non of this joking, non accusing, nonsense. Why would you even use a "non accusing voice" when that is exactly what he did(stole)? I'd prolly go a step further and made sure that the whole table knew that he tried to steal a chip from the novice.

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There is no need to cause a big deal and make someone feel like the [censored] that he is when you have to sit at a poker table for hours on end with the guy.

If you say it "joking" then the guy gets the chip back, and thats the end of it.

Taking your action is a good way to slow the game down and piss everyone off. I hate when people make a big deal about things, the floor gets called over, the game stops, the guy is mad, your mad. There is no point in being an ass about it and making a big deal and dragging it on for hours.

/rant

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I agree that some situations require a little more subtle and low key approach. For example, in this thread i insisted on NOT calling the floor as the situation wasnt appropriate,
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post11092170

However, the OP's situation is MUCH different. It is about a scumbag committing str8 up theft. I don't see whats so hard to understand, the guy STOLE money from someone else and its like you guys dont even give a [censored].

This scumbag commits theft and all you guys are worried about is not pissing him off and making him mad?!?! WTF?!?! Am I missing something here?


The apathy in this thread is incredible. You guys are the same people who let Kitty Genovese get stabbed/murdered/raped without batting an eye.

I hope one of these days, yo mamas get robbed and no one so much as turns their head to help. Then you'll know what it feels like. Maybe then, your attitudes will change.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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Honestly I'm not sure if I would have said anything only because it's not my business.

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I could see a dude pick somebody's pocket for his wallet and decide not to say anything because it technically isn't my business.
But that would be pretty pathetic.

I don't know why OP needs a sign there to tell him the right thing to do in this case.
And I don't know why anybody here would only be a 'maybe' about saying something.

I wouldn't be stern or rude about it because I probably want the creepy guy in the game because he probably sucks and I don't want things to be super-tense at the table just for everyone's sake...especially the guy he just tried to steal from who is still sitting right next to him and who I want to still be having a fun time at the game and want to return.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My action?
 

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5/10 NL last night at Resorts EC. Seat 6 is a total novice with no clue whats going on. He's playing almost entirely in green. Seat 5 is a regular in this game and stuck a few racks. All the dealers and floor people know him by name, nickname(s), and by all the big hands he's won/lost.

Situation: Seat 6 is in a hand. Seat 5 asks if he wants some color to play with and pulls out a stack of red. Seat 6 accepts the stack and tosses over 5 green, still thinking about the hand he's in. Seat 5 looks at the green, then decides to pick it up like nothing happened. Seat 8, friend of seat 5, sees this and starts saying something about "bad karma, bad bad karma." A few hands later he's still talking about karma, looks at the dealer, and says something like "Tell him the type of bad karma he's getting into." I'm in the 10 seat so I can't see the expression on the dealer's face but I presume the dealer saw it as well, as it was a seat 5/seat 6 transaction directly in front of him.

I'm in the 10 seat, not involved in the hand and not wanting to make enemies at the table. Should I have said something?

The Doc

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FWIW, I have played in games before where everybody at the table was armed, so this douchebag wouldn't scare me nor would he get away with something like this. I'd speak up in a heartbeat. I'm a pretty easy going fella but once he made the ["Tell him the type of bad karma he's getting into."] comment, then all the 'nice-nice' comments are over. If my chip had rolled over to him & he put it in his stack...he'd only get 1 chance to return it, not 5. They might 86 me for the ass whoopin' he's about to get but it's the principle of it. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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The apathy in this thread is incredible. You guys are the same people who let Kitty Genovese get stabbed/murdered/raped without batting an eye.

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This analogy is a little over-the-top, don't you think? It's hard to equate the reluctance to point out a $25 error in a color-up gone bad with the willful blind eyes that all the residents of an apartment complex displayed as a brutal rape and murder occurred in a parking lot beneath their windows. Usually, someone needs to hit a two-outer on a poster before such nuclear analogies are tossed around.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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The apathy in this thread is incredible. You guys are the same people who let Kitty Genovese get stabbed/murdered/raped without batting an eye.

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This analogy is a little over-the-top, don't you think? It's hard to equate the reluctance to point out a $25 error in a color-up gone bad with the willful blind eyes that all the residents of an apartment complex displayed as a brutal rape and murder occurred in a parking lot beneath their windows. Usually, someone needs to hit a two-outer on a poster before such nuclear analogies are tossed around.

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Actually the analogy sucks but for a different reason. Read "The Tipping Point" by Malcom Gladwell to understand the phenomenon. The reason why nobody called the police in the Kitty Genovese case was because everybody assumed somebody else had already done so. In this case, everybody who sees what is going on fails to seek help/justice knowing the guy is getting away with it.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

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[ QUOTE ]

This analogy is a little over-the-top, don't you think? It's hard to equate the reluctance to point out a $25 error in a color-up gone bad with the willful blind eyes that all the residents of an apartment complex displayed as a brutal rape and murder occurred in a parking lot beneath their windows. Usually, someone needs to hit a two-outer on a poster before such nuclear analogies are tossed around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually the analogy sucks but for a different reason. Read "The Tipping Point" by Malcom Gladwell to understand the phenomenon. The reason why nobody called the police in the Kitty Genovese case was because everybody assumed somebody else had already done so. In this case, everybody who sees what is going on fails to seek help/justice knowing the guy is getting away with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is referred to as the theory of "Diffusion of Responsibility." Indeed, the Genovese case would only be applicable to this post if the OP failed to confront the thief because he assumed that someone else would do so.

Re: Observed a player steal from another while coloring down. My actio
 

I speak up, I mention it like it was an inocent mistake.