88 with a [censored] image ME
 

I have an awful image I've lost like 5/7 showdowns so far each one a bet went in on the river I look and act tilted since I am. Really bad guy limps he does this with about 40% of his hands raises 15% of them. He's in MP I am OTB and make it 400 with black 88, SB calls he's got a pokerstars warmup only other player at table under 25 he's blond but doesn't have europeon accent. Limper calls. Effective stacks are like 12k SB has 21k limper has 23k.

Flop is 654 with 2 hearts checked to me I bet 1k SB c/r to 2500 pretty quickly.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

generally I'd call but its unpleasant.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

with your image as described i might shove

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

i'd shove TT, but 88 is too low.

pretty sure checking back flop isn't that bad either

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

i think a flop check would be borderline insane w/ given image. people are going to peel real light and possibly play back light. not to mention we are giving a free card on one of the best non-set flops we can get w/ a strong but vulnerable 88. i think it's closeish between calling and pushing but lean towards call.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think a flop check would be borderline insane w/ given image. people are going to peel real light and possibly play back light.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally yeah, but look at this flop.

What are they playing back with besides a flush draw? Even something like 76ss is still better served taking a line that isn't exploiting Shaun's possible spewiness.

And I definitely disagree that this is a great flop for us. I'd much rather have a K75 flop or something than a flop that is going to either give us no action or all-in action with the 2nd worst overpair when we are behind tons of two-pair, sets, straights, and better overpairs and ahead of nothing but a flush draw and a (arguably) poorly played pair + draw.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

there are 0 hands in his range you are way ahead of, a few hands you're way behind and a few hands you're flipping against. I'd probably fold and take a walk.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

ianisakson what about 77?

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
he's blond but doesn't have europeon accent

[/ QUOTE ]

weird!


you probably have to fold here, as someone else said you're not ahead of much at all.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
generally I'd fold but its unpleasant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
ianisakson what about 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

definite shove imo. I think this is a call, but it does suck. I think a flop check is good despite our image. Because we still probably won't get action from worst hands or bluffs in this spot.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
ianisakson what about 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

I count 77 as one of the hands we're "flipping" against because he's got extra outs. Why would he check-raise small with 77, that seems like one where i'm check-raising big.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

shaun,

if you have an awful image, why not limp behind with 88? because your image sucks, you're still likely to win a big pot if you flop goot, but you don't have pressure to stick it in in questionable spots because the pot's gotten all big and stuff.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

I play it the same but fold to the c/r

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
shaun,

if you have an awful image, why not limp behind with 88? because your image sucks, you're still likely to win a big pot if you flop goot, but you don't have pressure to stick it in in questionable spots because the pot's gotten all big and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

because on a lot of boards I can get 2 streets of value with 88 UI

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

Calling kind of sucks because there are no good turn cards and hes firing another barrel with like 99% of his range on like any turncard.

Shoving kind of sucks because it makes our hand a bluff as we are almost never getting value out of a worse hand by b/3b'ing this flop.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

if our image is as awful as you say it is, we should call and be fine getting it in in the vast majority of turns.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
Calling kind of sucks because there are no good turn cards and hes firing another barrel with like 99% of his range on like any turncard.

Shoving kind of sucks because it makes our hand a bluff as we are almost never getting value out of a worse hand by b/3b'ing this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Therefore, if both our options suck when he raises, and we know we're going to be raised A TON, why would we walk into a play with negative expectation?

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

evg I think the raise amount and the raise position are what matters if the limper c/r me to 3k I am shoving 100% of the time for value.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

First instinct was call, shove over turn bet on 100% of turns (well maybe not a 3). I'm slowly talking myself into just folding to the checkraise though.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
evg I think the raise amount and the raise position are what matters if the limper c/r me to 3k I am shoving 100% of the time for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point

i'm not sold checking is good or anything, i was just arguing it.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

I'm not a huge fan of the raise PF, you know they're calling and theres not a lot of flops you like. Raising is ok I guess, I'm just not a fan especially given your image.

I think I would have checked through on the flop, pot control. The bet isn't bad, but the C/r is pretty gross.

I think maybe you can fold here (even though normally I would never do this) because you basically only have 6 outs (the 7 hearts sucks). A set isn't great either here given the board. I dunno, I guess you can call his c/r since it's so little, but you have to be ready to fold A TON of turns.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shaun,

if you have an awful image, why not limp behind with 88? because your image sucks, you're still likely to win a big pot if you flop goot, but you don't have pressure to stick it in in questionable spots because the pot's gotten all big and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

because on a lot of boards I can get 2 streets of value with 88 UI

[/ QUOTE ]

this still holds if you limp...

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

Come on now, of course it's true. But pot is smaller so the two streets pretty much equal one street in a raised pot.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

0,

i'm pretty much cool with that in this case.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

WTF? Don't limp behind with 88 because 88 winning the pot right now is fun and because when we're called we get money in the pot when we pretty big equity against a limp/calling range and because it makes him check to us on the flop which lets us check back the flops where it's nice to check back and c-bet the flops where it's nice to c-bet.

It's totally not anywhere near acceptable to limp here.

I like betting the flop. What eric said doesn't apply because people don't get all crazy aggro here with hands that we'd expect them to.

And it's a fold after we get c/red for that reason as well.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

limping behind 88 OTB is not a good play here, seriously

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

noah,

we're getting check/raised a shitton here, because our image is assy.

my argument here is that raising sucks totally because of the above. all you're doign is inviting others to check/raise you off the best hand. and we got the 2nd best flop we could (no overs) and are saying 'ok, let's fold.'

you have to recognize your image before you make your play.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

Ok, I happened to call I have like 10.5k remaining after the flop it's an offsuit K he checks to me bet/check.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I happened to call I have like 10.5k remaining after the flop it's an offsuit K he checks to me bet/check.

[/ QUOTE ]

check-raise, check????????
he wants to check-raise you again, fun!!

Seriously though, this makes my head hurt and I have no idea what to do. check behind sounds best just because this hand is being played out awkwardly. If you picked up any kind of read on him by how fast he checked you could bet for value now.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

ohh yah for those bad at math main pot is about 7k now.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

if you bet is it with the intention of calling a shove? If you check behind what is your plan for the river? does overjamming 10k into a 7k pot here have any merit?

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I happened to call I have like 10.5k remaining after the flop it's an offsuit K he checks to me bet/check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your line pf, and I think I would call the smallish check/raise since you are in position, alot of hands he does this with you are beating, and I never trust anyone with blonde hair st the poker table (whether or not confirmed to be european).

After he checks the turn it definitely smells like he is trying to check/raise you again, I'd check behind and likely fold to most bets over 2-2.5k on river unless black 7 falls, in which case I would flat. If he does in fact have something like Ah7h, yes you are giving him free draw but you are holding 2 of his outs and this early I think you need to control the pot size.

Also, in the WSOP Main event there is so much dead money, I think you really need to be trying to make 5 card hands when you are in big pots.

BeL0W

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

This is rapidly becoming a real head [censored] of a hand. What are the chances that checking behind is about to give this guy a free look on a flushdraw with maybe the 7 of hearts in his hand aswell?

On the flip side, does he fold any hand that is currently beating us if we jam?

IMO, the potsize has become too awkward in relation to our stack for a bet fold.

Go all - in.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

I like the 3bet push the flop he seems to be trying to bluff you off the hand with your messed up image. As played I check turn and hope for a blank card on the river and call a small bet.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

Pretty easy check back on the turn, IMHO.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

noah doesn't his turn check represent he doesn't have straight/set and is more likely on 1pair/draw himself?

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

Maybe this is just me being out of touch with how the WSOP plays, but I don't think we can be that confident in his range here.

It's only a small mistake if you check back and he had 67/77 or whatever. It's a big mistake if you bet and he has a sett.

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

If hero has been splashy and loose why would people be playing back at him on connected flops like this with the draw out there? I figure they have to have a really strong hand in this instance if they don't expect him to just meekly fold to resistance.

Flop is a fold, IMO...even given image (which I think makes it an even easier fold).

Re: 88 with a [censored] image ME
 

i'd fold in this spot... i think he made it 2500 to try and induce you to come OTT knowing you were tilted, i'd like to believe he has a set here