WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

This is the first hand of a WSOP Single Table $1030 Satellite. No read.

5000, 25/50. (15 minutes round) limp with 44 utg, mp limps, button raises to 150. I call, mp calls. 3 players pot 525.

flop 5c4c4d. check, mp checks, button bets 500, I call. mp raises to 1500! button folds.

hero?

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

dont see how doing anything but calling makes sense here. I mean it looks a little suspicious but you might only get paid if you raise if he has 55 and he will pay you off with that anyway. Hopefully he will put you on a draw and if he just has a small overpair then he might keep trying to bet you off, of course he could have a big draw himself (like 6c7c) if which case he might push turn and if he makes it then you are getting paid anyway.

I think raising just gives him too much chance to get off his hand, esp. if its a small overpair and he would rightly be suspicious with a big draw and might well lay that down on a paired board too.

On turn I would check,stacks arent great for a bet and might give him opportunity to fold again. Obviously its going to suck if he checks behind, esp. if he has a draw and misses but I think theres a good chance he will put you on a hand you can fold turn with and try and push you out.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
dont see how doing anything but calling makes sense here. I mean it looks a little suspicious but you might only get paid if you raise if he has 55 and he will pay you off with that anyway. Hopefully he will put you on a draw and if he just has a small overpair then he might keep trying to bet you off, of course he could have a big draw himself (like 6c7c) if which case he might push turn and if he makes it then you are getting paid anyway.

I think raising just gives him too much chance to get off his hand, esp. if its a small overpair and he would rightly be suspicious with a big draw and might well lay that down on a paired board too.

On turn I would check,stacks arent great for a bet and might give him opportunity to fold again. Obviously its going to suck if he checks behind, esp. if he has a draw and misses but I think theres a good chance he will put you on a hand you can fold turn with and try and push you out.

[/ QUOTE ]

His analyze is too good.
Definitely pretend to make a crying call here.
He may even try to push you off from trip 4s if he thought you had a weak kicker. (Unlikely tho)
Unless he had 55, the best you are hoping is that he raised with a draw and caught it on the turn/river so he will pay your value bet off

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

Call and check turn.

I bet - 3bet the flop. You are asian. Everyone assumes that asians will push any flush draw at any time. No one is going to fold an overpair to your 3-bet after they raise you on the flop because 'that crazy asian guy has to have clubs.'

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

I paused for a few seconds pretending to calculate the pot-odd and called. Turn 6d, I checked, he checked behind. River 3d. Pot 4100. Board 54463 (three diamonds, 2 clubs).

Hero? bet (how much?) check or push?

Live read tells me he had over pair and he wanted to control the pot. This tells me he is a good player and most likely put me on a flush draw, no way to put me on a single 4 since I called the flop and checked the turn. It's very unlikely to put me on quad or a boat.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I paused for a few seconds pretending to calculate the pot-odd and called. Turn 6d, I checked, he checked behind. River 3d. Pot 4100. Board 54463 (three diamonds, 2 clubs).

Hero? bet (how much?) check or push?

Live read tells me he had over pair and he wanted to control the pot. This tells me he is a good player and most likely put me on a flush draw, no way to put me on a single 4 since I called the flop and checked the turn. It's very unlikely to put me on quad or a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

NYW--

If he was trying to control the pot, he couldn't have put you squarely on top pair. That said, a big bet looks best.

--Nate

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

I dont see any reason not to push here. If you were bluffing missed clubs why would you do anything other than push here? You have less than PSB here, anything smaller looks like a value bet imo. He probably has 66-99 and isnt folding 66 or 77 and good chance he will call with any.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

100% agree.

I bet 1500 at the river. Villain thought for a while and called/mucked.

But I'm thinking maybe I should have pushed to get all his chips.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

yeah just shove, those things were so soft he'll prolly call with like AT

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I paused for a few seconds pretending to calculate the pot-odd and called. Turn 6d, I checked, he checked behind. River 3d. Pot 4100. Board 54463 (three diamonds, 2 clubs).

Hero? bet (how much?) check or push?

Live read tells me he had over pair and he wanted to control the pot. This tells me he is a good player and most likely put me on a flush draw, no way to put me on a single 4 since I called the flop and checked the turn. It's very unlikely to put me on quad or a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

NYW--

If he was trying to control the pot, he couldn't have put you squarely on top pair. That said, a big bet looks best.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes. I meant "a flush draw," not "top pair."

--Nate

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

as played shove river.

anyone else have thoughts on bet-3betting this flop?

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

I thought of re-raise 3-betting the flop. The reason I didn't do that was because of my stack size. If I had 2.5K - 3K, I would have shoved the flop.



Villain believed his hand was strong enough to c/r on the flop. I don't think he put me on a 4 since I didn't lead the flop given a drawing board.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

I would reraise this flop after it was 1500 to me.

edit: Probably angle shoot by "calling" but throwing in a minraise is best.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

yeah, looks good, i just jam the river though- pot is nice and big and shoves look more suspicious than value bets to most people.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

I think I would pause a bit on flop and jam,basically making it look like a flush draw. If I chose to flat the 1500 on flop and check turn like the OP said action went down, on the river I would bet just about what he did, 1500-2000 leaving 1500-2000 behind, which is definitely more likely for you to be bluffing missed clubs then if you jammed. Most people don't bluff off their entire stack on 1st hand of a tourney so go for value with what looks like a "bluff stab"

BeL0W

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

[/ QUOTE ]


(Curtains, this isn't directed specifically at you)

Perhaps this should be its own post, but in regards to angle shooting I'm confused by the situational ethics I typically read in the following typical posts/hands:

1a. Poster asks "is this ok?" about angle shot he did/ planned to do.
1b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you're a douche/you would be a douche/stop being an angle-shooting douche!!"

2a. Poster describes action, asks "did I get angle shot?"
2b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you got angle shot/other guy was a douche!"

3a. Poster hits huge hand, describes planned angle shot action to get money in, asks "best way to get paid amirite?"
3b. 2+2'ers answer " Wow, you're a douche! Stop trying to angle shoot!"


Then a hand like this one:

4a. Poster flops the nuts, asks about best line to take
4b. 2+2'ers answer "How about an angle shot???"


Seriously, WTF???

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quard got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
another great spot to put in 2 $500 chips and a $5000 chip, and go ballistic when they say you raised, insisting that meant to just call and of course make huge scene to induce the call from 66.

[/ QUOTE ]


(Curtains, this isn't directed specifically at you)

Perhaps this should be its own post, but in regards to angle shooting I'm confused by the situational ethics I typically read in the following typical posts/hands:

1a. Poster asks "is this ok?" about angle shot he did/ planned to do.
1b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you're a douche/you would be a douche/stop being an angle-shooting douche!!"

2a. Poster describes action, asks "did I get angle shot?"
2b. 2+2'ers answer "Wow, you got angle shot/other guy was a douche!"

3a. Poster hits huge hand, describes planned angle shot action to get money in, asks "best way to get paid amirite?"
3b. 2+2'ers answer " Wow, you're a douche! Stop trying to angle shoot!"


Then a hand like this one:

4a. Poster flops the nuts, asks about best line to take
4b. 2+2'ers answer "How about an angle shot???"


Seriously, WTF???

[/ QUOTE ]



This annoys me too. I assume that Curtains is leveling with his post but I fear that everyone reading the response does not realize this.

Re: WSOP $1030 SNG - Quad got C/R on the flop!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would pause a bit on flop and jam,basically making it look like a flush draw. If I chose to flat the 1500 on flop and check turn like the OP said action went down, on the river I would bet just about what he did, 1500-2000 leaving 1500-2000 behind, which is definitely more likely for you to be bluffing missed clubs then if you jammed. Most people don't bluff off their entire stack on 1st hand of a tourney so go for value with what looks like a "bluff stab"

BeL0W

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I like your analysis.

My debate after of this hand is the flop and river decision - shove/call flop? bet 1500/shove the river?

(Call the flop/leading the turn also considered, but will lose over pair most of the times IMO.)

====================

Because this is the first hand, no read to each other. Villain is a guy in early 30s from Canada (saw his canadian bills when he paid for the drink). Some players check/raise here with overpair just to find out where they are and they fold to 3-bet at this spot while others would call a push.

Without knowing this guy, I thought pushing the flop in this first hand may lose him 60% of the time though I'm still debating it myself.


On the other hand, pot is big enough to get any bet on the turn committed to the pot. If he put me on a flush and bet the turn, I get all his chips. Also, if his hand improves on the turn, he would also bet.

Finally, if he checks the turn, I can get more read about how cautiously he plays and can decide the best amount on the river.

That's why I chose to call the flop. Once he checked the turn, I thought he wouldn't pay me more than 1500 at the river unless he hit river. Not sure if my thought makes sense.

After he mucked the river, he's very frustrated and walked out for 10 minutes in this 15 minute round game. After seeing that I thought maybe he was going to call a river push.