No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

I played my first extended amount of NLO8 tonite on Stars, 4 tables of $100...And not gonna lie I just don't get the game...I mean there are people open shoving preflop for 170-200 BB into the blinds...I found myself doing this a few times as well as it seemed to be the acceptable way to play AA...

I flopped middle set once, bet out $3 which was a pot sized bet only to have the great mustafa come over me for $200...

I mean is this seriously playing cards??? Any effing nit can shove 200 BBs into a pot and take it down, it requires ZERO skill to do this, which is probably why that donk likes the game...It's not like PLO8 where you are constricted by the betting limits so you can't just check raise your opponent for 200 BBs...

This is like what Negreneau (sp?) was saying about the WSOP, he bets 1000 into a 1500 chip pot and somebody goes over the top for 40,000...I agree with him when he says that is not cards...

I know there is a strategy that can exploit this stupidity and I'm sure if I play this godawful game long enough I'll figure it out, but this just makes Omaha 8/b a friggin crapfest...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

Actually mustafa is supposed to be alright. Perhaps he saw that you were new to the table and, without any other information, figured you to be a donk wanting to gamble?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9865888

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

From the tone of OPs post, sounds like mustafa took all his chips.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

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I flopped middle set once, bet out $3 which was a pot sized bet only to have the great mustafa come over me for $200...

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What would you do if he pot raised?

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

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I mean is this seriously playing cards??? Any effing nit can shove 200 BBs into a pot and take it down, it requires ZERO skill to do this, which is probably why that donk likes the game

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Funny, this is exactly why I don't like No Limit Holdem...most people still seem to consider it the "Cadillac of poker games" though...

Rob

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

middle set is an easy fold to an all in

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

No not at all we have played 10s of thousands of hands together...Let's just say we know each other...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

Are you kidding me? He is a nut peddling nit, you think I'm gonna call him here? He will NEVER stack me unless:

A) He outdraws me when I'm ahead.
B) I manage to miss my huge draw when he gets his money in poor.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

Good question...I was never thinking about calling off a stack in NL, but in PL I probably would have called down as not only did I have the middle set, but I had one of the cards that would make top set...But against that opponent I might have still laid it down on the flop, but his piss poor sub-optimal play probably cost him $60-80 there...It's so funny everybody thinks he is such a great player, but he can't adjust to playing against somebody who is as skilled as he is...The fact that he gets paid off in this game is amazing because his play is so sub-optimal...And even if these are bluffs it's dumb because this move has to work the VAST majority of the time for it to be profitable...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

He gets paid off way too much.. ya he pretty much peddles the nuts, you know where he is at almost all the time..

The key to winning at the NL version of this game is knowing when you have a good chance of 1/4 someone, or a freeroll. So many people can't fold nut low. So you get nut low and some kind of high.. and shove. When the table has decent players.. it usually ends up one has huge draw.. one has top set, etc.. and you flip for stacks a lot, and I really don't care for it personally.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

everybody thinks he is such a great player

I haven't seen anyone say that. He's too predictable, calls a little too much on the river, and doesn't play top set properly. But he *is* a tight nut-peddler, so it's usually advisable to stay out of his way if he starts betting/raising.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

Yeah that's pretty much what it turned out to be...I think it's kinda boring compared to PLO8...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

NLO8 is a game of bingo for nut peddling nits. There are 2 ways to make money at this game IMO:

1. limp limp limp and wait to make the nuts, then push and wait for someone to make a mistake.
2. Push with every hand that is good enough to play well in a coinflip situation (regardless of how much $ that is) and make money from the fold equity.

See the thread on Juarez: neither of these games are poker in my book. Poker is a game that involves the matching of wits. This is a game for people who want to play cards but seek to take from you your strategic advantage (skill). You could program a computer to play NLO8.

Which gives me an idea ...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

I started out playing poker in NL cash games from 1-2 up to 2-4 and in the roughly 2 years I played those games I never saw people shove in 150+ BB into the pot preflop to win the blinds as much as I did in the 5 hours I played NLO8...

And these pushes weren't coming from the nits, they were coming from the guys who I've played PLO8 with and who know what they are doing...But as soon as you attach the "No Limit" label to the game, people feel the need to overbet pots and do all sorts of crazy [censored] that is sub-optimal...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

well people don't want to play AA post flop.. so they just shove. Nobody can really call profitably. Although certain players, even ones considered "good" will get it in with good A2 hands even when they should be 100% sure the guy shoving has AA.

I think taking a monster like AA24 and shoving preflop and winning the blinds and a limp is pretty horrible.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

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I mean is this seriously playing cards???

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absolutely not. i've played the $5/$10 NLO8 a few times on FTP lately and you get clowns like "Idiot29" open pushing with 45QT, lol.

if you ever want to play bingo poker, FTP nlo8 is the place to be.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

Just outta curiosity then why do you play Dave? I mean you obviously know what the hell you are doing and are one of the top PLO8 players on the 'net...It seems like a game that totally eliminates any advantage a good player has (like being able to control pot size, etc..)...Is it because there ARE morons out there who will open push with that garbage??

I can't believe that there are people who would open push with that crap at that level...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

I have made great money playing the style #2 that Truth discussed...

2. Push with every hand that is good enough to play well in a coinflip situation (regardless of how much $ that is) and make money from the fold equity.

80% of the time, everyone folds...and the 20% of the time you are called, it is rarely anything but a coinflip

Pushing is +EV

Unfortuanately, it can be high varience. I played 25/50 last week and lost 4 pushes preflop. I was 57, 55, 54, and 53% EV preflop.

And Idiot is truely an idiot. I play him H/U all the time and am up big vs him. Recently, he has sat out everytime I join him H/U and sits back in when I leave

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

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Just outta curiosity then why do you play Dave? I mean you obviously know what the hell you are doing and are one of the top PLO8 players on the 'net...It seems like a game that totally eliminates any advantage a good player has (like being able to control pot size, etc..)...Is it because there ARE morons out there who will open push with that garbage??

I can't believe that there are people who would open push with that crap at that level...

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Uhm.. dave is one of those guys that will call all ins with A2. But as predator said, you're not going to be a huge dog, depending on the kind of aces someone is pushing with, the more they push, the looser you can call. If someone is only pushing AA2-AA5 I don't think any calls are ever going to be profitable.

And if you've never played with Idiot29 he's fun lol. Used to talk smack all the time too, think he got his chat taken though.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

I guess it comes back to the fact that if you have the proper roll to play in the game you should be willing to take any advantage you have over your opponent that beats the rake...

But doesn't NLO8 take your advantage away of being a better player than those you are playing with??

That's the thing that gets me, I can outplay most everybody I play with...I wouldn't want to give them another "tool" in order to beat me...I think the push-bot gives them another tool to beat me...Maybe I'm wrong here and just don't understand the finer points of the game...

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

I think it does take some advantage away from good players.. it's going to create more variance, even if you aren't calling all ins where you hope you are flipping. PL gives you multiple opportunities to play your opponents.

Well bankroll considerations might be part of it, but I think taking too many of these "coin flips" it's really going to be hard to win in the long term. If you want to call an all with A23K or something like that vs some random AA hand you're going to be on the bad side of a coin flip.. 44/56 something like that depending on suits and how good the aces are etc, but I think a key thing that is missing from the analysis of hands like this is the AA hand is going to scoop MUCH more often, sometimes almost twice as often, doesn't seem like a situation I want to be getting myself into with A23K.

No, I think you understand the finer points pretty well.. the nl games are the reason I quit playing stars, those were the only games that would get going forever it seemed. Naked ace bluffing is rampant among some people too.. if you push 3x's pot on river with the naked ace.. what can call you?

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding me? He is a nut peddling nit, you think I'm gonna call him here? He will NEVER stack me unless:

A) He outdraws me when I'm ahead.
B) I manage to miss my huge draw when he gets his money in poor.

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This guy has gone all-in against me with 1 or 2 outs several times - "a nut pedding nit" well not against me but maybe he has a "read" on me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

mustafa plays differently depending on his stack size.. he splashes around a little at times.. and I really doubt he will ever fold sets.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just outta curiosity then why do you play Dave? I mean you obviously know what the hell you are doing and are one of the top PLO8 players on the 'net...It seems like a game that totally eliminates any advantage a good player has (like being able to control pot size, etc..)...Is it because there ARE morons out there who will open push with that garbage??

I can't believe that there are people who would open push with that crap at that level...

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Uhm.. dave is one of those guys that will call all ins with A2. But as predator said, you're not going to be a huge dog, depending on the kind of aces someone is pushing with, the more they push, the looser you can call. If someone is only pushing AA2-AA5 I don't think any calls are ever going to be profitable.

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I didnt say anything about ranges of hands to call with. It the pushing preflop part I was discussing.

Re: No Limit Omaha 8/b - Please Explain This Game To Me...
 

"But as predator said, you're not going to be a huge dog," notice the comma, it's functional as well as pretty to look at.