$110 NLTRN River Decision
 

Comments on all streets are fine, but I'm really looking at the river here.

My notes on Villain are mainly info in raised pots. He's fairly aggro in raised pots OOP and will pot flops in those situations. He's not much of a check raiser on flops so far, he's a solid loser in SS but his average stake is about 150 and he raises 4x PF when he raises (at all levels).

As far as relevance to this hand, he likes to bet a ton of flops in position when limping after I check OOP. That should explain my flop and turn line.

I haven't had many cards to raise his limps, but he's limped a decent amount of hands. I've seen him show down an A in a limped pot and I've raised his limp once, 4x BB. I had AK , flop came 467 all clubs, I had no club. I lead out 3/4ths and he folded.

Anyways, I'll way in with my thoughts on the river and what I did and results, etc. after some good comments, thanks.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SB: t1225
Hero: t1775

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB calls t25 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t75)</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t100, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">SB bets t100</font>, Hero calls t100 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t200)</font>.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t300, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t175</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to t350</font>, Hero calls t175 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t825)</font>.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t1000, 2 players)


Results:
Final pot: t1000

Edit:

I guess I should give reads as to what he's done as far as calling river bets.

He's called 3 barrels on a scary board with second pair in a raised pot to my semi bluff, and he's folded in another situation on a board that was a bit more dry. He may be a "feeling" player who tries to put someone on one hand and play based on how he fares against that one hand.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

fold preflop

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

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fold preflop

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LOL. U know he's BB right? chicago, this hand is horrible bro. fold flop...as played i can understand a block on turn i guess but u've played the hand so poorly that the river is kinda strange and i dont know what to do. I guess I'd check call river.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

rofl... come on now, fold pre? let's get some decent advice here.. he was in the BB.

OK Ry, on the flop a ck/call is pretty weak here IMO, I think you gotta bet (75-100) or ck/fold

Once you got the turn It's a pretty tough call I think (175 into 900) so like... 4-1, and you have 9 diamonds, 3 5s, and 2 3s to make you a hand worth playing, so 14 outs gives your like 2.2 - 1 I think, but your still not even sure you'll be good, in a limped pot he could have diamonds, 57, etc., this is tough for me, so i'd like to see some other peoples opinions on it.

I think the river is a ck/call probably... but be wary of the push, because 87 diamonds or 57 are both in this opps limping range obv

and as for the river, I would say it's a Ck/Call in a limped pot, because they 7 is def. a possibility w/this opps range it seems, maybe 77 if he limps a ton, maybe 57 suited, I mean it could be alot

I fold on the flop for sure though and that would eliminate the other decisions, I think ck/call is pretty bad, gl man, hopefully get alot of opinions in here, i'm interested in seeing them

edit: Yea, after Indy's post I could buy a river block as well and actually think thats probably a better line, but with a block on this pot size your prolly forced to call a push anyways unless you block real low at like 275... but then your opening yourself up to have the pot taken from you if he's aggro and you are willing to fold a hand like that.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

im thinking that i would fold the flop bet. he could have Hachemed you and floped the str8. his range here is fairly large and if your strait hits your vulnerable to any 7.
as played, however i would bet the river prob 1/2 IMO and puke on a shove.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

i was clearly joking about folding preflop fellas

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

wow i cant believe you guys got levelled that badly

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

Villain bets almost everytime I check into limped pots OOP. Why is calling and leading the turn not the optimal line here?

He's not going to float my turn lead with nothing, I have a ton of outs to what is the best hand 90% of the time and a huge amount of fold equity in a pot that is actually going to mean something.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

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he likes to bet a ton of flops in position when limping after I check OOP

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people saying fold flop are crazy. c/c, c/r anything but fold.

As played b/c river.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

Push the river. I think he checks behind with most of his range here. He might make a hero call or get stubborn with two pair though. I can't fold with so much money in the pot.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

what do you think his turn minraising range is? i kinda like openshoving, unless you think his range is weighted towards semibluffs, in which case c/c.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

I like flop C/C and turn lead given read.

Any interpretation of his turn min raise? He has ~700 after that, is it conceivable that you still have fold equity? The minraise could be a weak 1 pair hand 6x, 4x Looking to get to SD cheaply, either way it's a strange bet I'd probably shove turn over the top of his bet.

For that reason maybe CR Turn AI is viable too.

As played, I shove river, hope he gets stubborn with w/e.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

The tough part of this hand for me was the river. I thought my line up until there was fine given all my reads.

I felt there was a lot in his range on that turn raise mainly a king or a 6. It could be a straight obviously but I think I'm getting the odds here and I don't think he really ever shows up with a flush draw. He could conceivably have Xd6d but I don't think he's going to raise the turn here with that kind of hand. He might, however.

When calling the turn I was thinking "I should lead out for 500 on my hit river, I think he's going to call with a lot of one pair hands, especially with the flush hitting."

I decided to check and he checked behind and flipped AA and I wondered about the river. I don't think it was necessarily results oriented either, I think there's room for some sort of profitable semi-thin bet on this river against this player.

Anyways, it seems I've been taking the wrong hands too far and not firing enough with my better hands at times, so I was curious to know what everyone thought of this hand.

I'd like to hear what Cwar and Hokie think of this hand (obviously Hokie was leveling) as I think they are two of the better regular posters in the forum, but I respect most everybody's opinion who posted and thank you for it.

Edit: And back to the river, this just popped into my head. At the time I was thinking he will only shove the extra that I don't bet with a better straight or a flush on rivers, and that convinced me to check call and see if he'll bluff the river (which didn't really seem great IMO bc he's not a maniac if he sees I called his raise on this board I doubt he's value betting/bluffing much here that I beat). So I was kind of stuck in between here, got indecisive and went with a check.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

once again, i suck at sngs etc. but i think if you bet the river it should be a shove. esp vs someone who can put you on a missed draw and make hero calls.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

That's the tough part in my mind because I think his range is made up a lot of one pair hands he "thinks" are probably good.

It might be a question of is he more likely to bet a strong one pair or call an open shove?

I think he looks down at a four straight board, looks at his strong one pair hands (majority of his range I put him on, obviously busted draws, hit draws, two pairs, trips could all be here from someone like this) and gives up. It's hard to look back objectively and tell myself I should check this river. That's why I posted this.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

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I think he looks down at a four straight board, looks at his strong one pair hands (majority of his range I put him on, obviously busted draws, hit draws, two pairs, trips could all be here from someone like this) and gives up.

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It's not so much gives up as decides he wants a showdown. It's very hard to value bet one pair into this board, and he doesn't want to let you use the four-straight to bluff him off a reasonably-sized pot.

You have to find some sort of a bet here. What changed your mind from when you planned to bet 500 to when you actually checked?

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

I must've decided he would bet. There's no other reason I could have checked here. Given my river action my turn call is probably not getting the proper odds.

P.S. Teach me six-card stud.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

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P.S. Teach me six-card stud.

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Heh. Six-card stud thread.

I'm actually reading a book right now that's old enough to include six-card stud and six-card Razz, but I haven't gotten to that part yet.

Re: $110 NLTRN River Decision
 

I don't like your turn line. When OOP keep the pots small when you have a marginal hand. Good players will raise with a wide range when you CC flop and lead the turn. CC the turn is a better play IMO and most likely river. River is more read based however because he would most likely rather check a hand like middle pair down the bluff, trying to represent the better straight. usually in spots like that I try to logically reason that it's unlikely theyd bluf unless they were triple barreling with air which still then makes it possible for them to stumble into a straight. Getting the pot that big by the river though just puts you in a tough spot.