WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

220 left in WSOP $1500. Average stack is 30000. We're ITM and the money doesn't really start jumping until top 50. Big stack in this hand plays really passive. Limps some (limped JT from middle position in one spot), minraises a little and has shown down stuff like A8o, and raises to 4x BB with big hands. He actually said something to the effect of "if I raise big I have a big hand" and has shown AA when raising 4x BB. The table is calling him "Terminator" and somebody mentions him winning 6 straight races when I get to the table.

Mid stack is playing more straight forward. Although he has called one of these minraises from the BB before and just bet out and taken the pot. I have yet to see him cold call a raise in position but all my time with him was around the money bubble. Overall he has been solid TAG but hasn't shown anything down yet.

I had been really aggressive around the money bubble because the big stack was so passive. I had stolen my way from 30000 to 50000 while losing 2 showdowns to short stacks. I had led out from the SB for half pot on the money bubble in a limped pot on a steal.

Big stack 90000
Button 38000
Hero 45000

We're the 3 biggest stacks at the table.

800/1600 ante 200

The Big stack minraises to 3200, button calls, SB folds and I have Q9o in BB. I call.

Flop Q9s8s

I lead out 7500, big stack calls almost immediately, and button almost immediately goes all-in for 35000. Button seems strong, and big stack is kinda of shaking his head looking at his chips(he doesn't see me watching him and I am 99% sure he's not tricking me, he plays extremely non-tricky).

Pot is now 34000 and its 27000 to me, and I have 34000.

All-in or fold?

Do you guy like preflop? how about the lead out?

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

Ummm... call immediately? I really don't see the huge issue with this, dude's shoving range is like... pretty wide here and sure maybe occassionally you're behind to a set, but I'd say that's a very, very small portion of the time and I just don't see how you can ever even consider folding this?

EDIT: I mean, maybe you don't want to do it IMMEDIATELY, deliberate for a bit or something if you really want to try and get OR in for the ride (you probably do because I think the most likely holding for button is a monster draw of some kind and OR probably has a better Q but obviously not 2 pair so he's drawing to 3 outs)

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

I just realized TJ gives a straight so maybe not? I mean OR certainly doesn't have TJ since you don't think he can be putting on a show, and it seems out of character for button to do this given your read.

I just don't really see the issue with this hand, honestly... You call and win big pot------>>>>big chip stack----->>>>final table WSOP event----->>>>robusto

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

You can't really ever fold this.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

By solid TAG I meant 50 yo nit. These guys would shove the nuts here for sure. It amazes me how small the old peoples' ranges are in these events. I mean think about what these old guys are doing with AsJs?

As amazing as it sounds I think they call closing out the action with the combo draws. But I've only played 2 events so far this year, so you guys tell me what a random nit's range is here?

I understand it would be a ridiculous fold

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

must call. Also I'd bet closer to the full pot on the flop.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

Well if it's a ridiculous fold, what's the issue? Clearly you have to move in here.

Sorry if you were beat, but that's the way things go.

Oh and I guess I agree with you on old nits shoving the nuts here, because every tournament I play I love hearing people say "ohhhh he just shoved a set" on some flop where like... no one would ever shove over a bet with a set because it completely kills the value of the hand.

Every time I think to myself "why the FU CK would anyone ever shove a set there?!" and then every time I get caught by some moron doing something like that I'm like "ohhhh sh it, how'd I get leveled by some donk because I didn't think it was possible anyone was that retarded"

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

You have to call. You can also shove PF. You can also pot the flop to price yourself in or, depending on your image, bet less to widen the shoving range. Or CR. Lots of ways to play it but the result must be that you're down to the felt by the turn.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

Ya I guess you guys are right, this probably belongs in BBV.

But I just had this sense it was a set, JT, or maybe AQ. And if you add AQ to the range I'm getting odds to call.


Results:

I go all-in and big stacks calls. 88 for button, KsQs, for big stack and I'm drawing to 3 outs for the main pot.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

ZOMG leveled

I mean not the worst shove with a set, but dude got paid off with like the 2 hands that will possibly call him that he's ahead of which is pretty sick.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean not the worst shove with a set, but dude got paid off with like the 2 hands that will possibly call him that he's ahead of which is pretty sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about, wardekar??? How do you not shove a set if you're button, wth. It's not even a pot sized AI. Just calling w/ 88 on that flop is just awful.

Also, this is a must call, because of the 98/huge combo draw possibilities.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

I don't see how this is the easy call / push every one is making it out to be. As described, I doubt button insta-pushes an unmade hand. This feels more like: "I'm ahead, this is a dangerous board, let's get it in." 88, TJ and 99 ( less so, obv) are in his range and he'd play them like this.

It would be different if he tanked for 2 minutes and did it, or if he was a good young player who quickly understood the value of a big draw / combo hand there, and therefore insta-pushed.

Also, my experience is that live, once they are in the money, there is some sort of 'I want to savor this' aspect to many players' decision making process. Insta-pushing with an unmade hand in a 3-way pot doesn't fit that description.

I suck at folding but I think you can find one here.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

what does button do if he has AJs here

super easy call so that big stack can't fold his overpair/whatever 1 pair hand

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

BU has KK/AA here so often, and you beat those hands.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
BU has KK/AA here so often, and you beat those hands.

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Do they flat call on the BTN with AA/KK that much live? It seems that most nits come from the "I have to bet out so they won't outdraw me/I always lose with AA" school of thought. Wouldn't expect that level of trickiness from this guy.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

Sorry.. I completely misread the hand.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
what does button do if he has AJs here

super easy call so that big stack can't fold his overpair/whatever 1 pair hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't have a great read on this guy so I obviously have to call, but these older nits I believe would just call closing out the action with AsJs or As10s.

Also I dont believe 98s was in button's preflop range, and I don't think he would insta-shove AQ although I can't say for sure.

Re: WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot
 

you can never fold here but sorry about the cooler. your hand is way too strong vs their ranges.