live 6/12, TT HJ
 

Nice loose passive table, Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raises 2 limpers. SB, BB call, as do the limpers.

Flop [9.3 SB]: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Checked to Hero, Hero bets, SB folds, 3 call.

Turn [6.7 BB]: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, 3 call.

River [10.7 BB]: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Checked to Hero....

Third barrel? Pretty sure I need to bet that flop and turn.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

Bet. Anyone holding a J will likely fold.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

How much is the chance of that happening offset by Ax [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] check-calling?

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

Well, since the table is passive, I'd think any holder of an A would go ahead and bet out when it comes on the river. Of course there's always a chance you'll be c/r'ed, w/ an A, but that's the risk you take by betting.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

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Bet. Anyone holding a J will likely fold.

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What games do you play?

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Well, since the table is passive, I'd think any holder of an A would go ahead and bet out when it comes on the river.

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This is the opposite of what a passive player would do.

Check behind.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

I play 3/6 live. On a passive table the holder of an A will hang in until the river if it's cheap enough, and bet out when it hits. This is because, in my experience, passive = obvious. So by betting out when the A hits you're telling the checkers you have one.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

wow easiest check behind ever

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

I agree with Sharpie that the passive type of player I'm describing and used to seeing will pretty much always check-call ace-little there and will only bet out aces up.

I was surprised, though, to hear the holder of a jack tell me he would've folded to a river bet.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

betting too frisky?? I'm just thinking that I'm probably not winning this hand unless I convince a J-holder that I've got an A, and with it checked around to me when am I ever going to get a better opportunity to pull off such a bluff?

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

Which is exactly why I would have bet that river. I just think it's a really good climate for bluffing the river, with the A hitting and it being checked around to you.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

I agree with the check behind. You could be looking at AX of hearts as you mentioned. I think Js typically make the call too once they've gone this far. Too many people for all of them not to call/have us beat.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

I don't think a J is folding this river if he called you all the way thus far. I sort of see Counts thinking about a bluff, repping a big hand that we raised PF with like AK etc. and a river bet is trying to say that Z"we paired our Ace" but I still think too many hands beat us here to bet out on this river card and try this.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

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I was surprised, though, to hear the holder of a jack tell me he would've folded to a river bet.

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I think he was lying to you. And if he wasn't lying, then I'm pretty sure his chips would have jumped into the pot by themselves.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

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betting too frisky?? I'm just thinking that I'm probably not winning this hand unless I convince a J-holder that I've got an A, and with it checked around to me when am I ever going to get a better opportunity to pull off such a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just..... wrong. Like, really wrong.

Better bluff opportunities come up all the time.

Nobody's folding a Jack here. EVER. ABSOLUTELY EVER. You could show an Ace and they'd still pay you off.

You'll win this hand a ton by checking.

You beat middle, bottom, as well as 88-99, KQ, KT Kx Qx 2x ~x and whatever the hell else people are calling flop bets with

not to mention heats seeeeeeeewtid

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

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So by betting out when the A hits you're telling the checkers you have one.

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This assumes that they try to read hands. They don't. Even the ones who do will throw their chips in there because they "have to see it."

You have practically zero fold equity. Check behind.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

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Bet. Anyone holding a J will likely fold.

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No one at 6/12 is ever folding a J.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet. Anyone holding a J will likely fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one at 6/12 is ever folding a J.

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No one is folding a J at any limit. .50-1 online 300-600 live, online, Germany, the moon, nobody's folding a Jack here.

Re: live 6/12, TT HJ
 

I concur with sharpie.